Turbo Failure / Upgrade

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

BradM

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2022
Messages
196
Reaction score
163
Location
60010
Dang. Did you remove the boost controller completely and run it? It seems like you've done everything mechanical. Can you drive it around? Does it feel like limp mode or just no boost? I've run with open charge pipes and it ran fine unless you asked for boost.
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
Tried bypassing the boost controller and replaced it with a new one, but the datalog shows it is commanding boost properly. Currently Idles perfect and drives fine except no boost. I have no idea how I would compare limp mode vs no boost. :shrug:
 

BradM

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2022
Messages
196
Reaction score
163
Location
60010
Limp mode means you'd barely crawl along the side of the highway until you reach an exit and call a flatbed :)

So you unhooked the boost controller so the WG actuators vacuum lines were open to the air and still no boost?
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
haha, definitely runs fine (like an all motor V6) so no limp mode. Yes sir, I unhooked the WG rubber line, no boost. The shop took it a step further and pressure tested the WG's as well and they were starting to open around 3psi of air, which CR Performance said was good. I had good compression on all cylinders as well, I mean I am just lost.
 

BradM

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2022
Messages
196
Reaction score
163
Location
60010
1) No leaks in charge pipes.
2) WG actuators are holding WG's closed.
3) Turbos are spinning.
4) Still no boost.
5) I'd be looking at clogged cats or restricted exhaust.
 

yaycandy

Aerospace Engineer
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
2,453
Reaction score
1,788
Location
Hanover, PA
Ive had major boost leaks and still made 8-10 psi. Even running without my custom blow off valve on before the throttle plate. I was still making 7 psi with a 1.5” hole in the pipe. Even with the linkages took off the turbos. The ecm cant tell it to do nutin. As long as the motor is forcing exhaust into the turbine, it would spool up.
I hate to think it but those turbos dont seem to be making any boost. The turbine can spin all day. Dont mean its compressing air.
Thats crazy, i think everything you tried already put the car out the question. You are running the turbos entirely mechanical and its not making boost.
You know, i bet the wastegate valve is not sealing inside the turbo and pressure it just going through it even when its shut. Ive seen that happen before on another vehicle. Weird how it could be both turbos.

Well if you disconnect the wastegate linkage. And your exhaust works. Ecm and hoses dont matter then. If it dont make boost then the turbos are bad. Either the wastegate valve or compressors. They are simple
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
1) No leaks in charge pipes.
2) WG actuators are holding WG's closed.
3) Turbos are spinning.
4) Still no boost.
5) I'd be looking at clogged cats or restricted exhaust.
No cats on the car at all, no mufflers either, just two resonators.
 

BradM

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2022
Messages
196
Reaction score
163
Location
60010
Dang again. It's common to both turbos so two "bad turbos" would be virtually impossible (unless they were both oil-starved and can't spool up). I hate to second guess but I would be questioning some of the testing and re-checking it at this point.
 

Ta2dResqr

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
1,162
Reaction score
1,098
Location
Central Ohio
Along the lines of @yaycandy, have you tested the turbos themselves in any way? Can you confirm they are not bad? Any chance a newbie at CR rebuilt them wrong? Can you check things like are the turbines actually spinning, are they tight on the shaft, are the seals good, etc?
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
Ive had major boost leaks and still made 8-10 psi. Even running without my custom blow off valve on before the throttle plate. I was still making 7 psi with a 1.5” hole in the pipe. Even with the linkages took off the turbos. The ecm cant tell it to do nutin. As long as the motor is forcing exhaust into the turbine, it would spool up.
I hate to think it but those turbos dont seem to be making any boost. The turbine can spin all day. Dont mean its compressing air.
Thats crazy, i think everything you tried already put the car out the question. You are running the turbos entirely mechanical and its not making boost.
You know, i bet the wastegate valve is not sealing inside the turbo and pressure it just going through it even when its shut. Ive seen that happen before on another vehicle. Weird how it could be both turbos.

Well if you disconnect the wastegate linkage. And your exhaust works. Ecm and hoses dont matter then. If it dont make boost then the turbos are bad. Either the wastegate valve or compressors. They are simple
That's pretty much my assumption as well at this point. The WG's are brand new and the turbo's freshly rebuilt, it's literally the only thing that changed after the original turbo's let go. I'll be sending the turbo's and WG's back to Canada (CR Performance) for testing ($80 one way shipping) once I get the second turbo out this weekend. They have to go through customs as well, so this long process will continue to be even longer.

It is interesting to hear that you have seen the wastegate valve in the turbo not seal, even when closed. I thought about that for a second but thought no way. I mean I can see that it is closed, but even if it was not sealed all the way, I would assume I would see some pressure (1-3psi) at least.

I appreciate everyone's advice and suggestions along the way. IMG 3266
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
Along the lines of @yaycandy, have you tested the turbos themselves in any way? Can you confirm they are not bad? Any chance a newbie at CR rebuilt them wrong? Can you check things like are the turbines actually spinning, are they tight on the shaft, are the seals good, etc?
They spin freely, aren't rubbing, only have about .005 or less of radial play. I've thought about the chance of someone new at CR performance assembling them, believe me I've thought of every possible scenario at this point. I'm going to send them back for them to inspect and test.
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
front turbo shaft broke in half, impeller was sitting in the hose upon disassembly. Rear turbo impeller was rubbing housing and shaft was very loose. When it happened it dumped oil in the exhaust too and had tons of smoke, made me think I blew the motor.
 

kryptto

The Best Thing About Cars... ones in my mirror.
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
1,407
Reaction score
737
Location
South East, Florida
front turbo shaft broke in half, impeller was sitting in the hose upon disassembly. Rear turbo impeller was rubbing housing and shaft was very loose.
I could not imagine..... seriously if they weren't as expensive as they are, why if they bench test them, they didn't find it. I would be driving there myself personally.
 

BradM

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2022
Messages
196
Reaction score
163
Location
60010
@usmc368 I understand the middle finger and I raise mine as well. Did you compare the CR compressor wheel with your OEM wheel? They should look different. Maybe CR didn't change out the OEM compressor wheels.
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
Yes sir, the previous compressor wheel was in my hand and then my trash can. (Shaft broke) The other turbo compressor wheel was damaged from hitting the compressor housing. These appeared brand new.
 

kryptto

The Best Thing About Cars... ones in my mirror.
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
1,407
Reaction score
737
Location
South East, Florida
@usmc363 just noodling here - was going through your posts - when you installed the new turbos that came back, did they ever run? I am curious why parts broke etc. Since I havent performed a turbo replacement, I know when you get new turbos you need to re-tune and immediately to avoid damaging things, however you always had zero boost, and never heard the mechanical failure when it happened?

Your whole event is very strange.
 

usmc363

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
@usmc363 just noodling here - was going through your posts - when you installed the new turbos that came back, did they ever run? I am curious why parts broke etc. Since I havent performed a turbo replacement, I know when you get new turbos you need to re-tune and immediately to avoid damaging things, however you always had zero boost, and never heard the mechanical failure when it happened?

Your whole event is very strange.
So I purchased the car with the tune that ran for about 1.5 years before this happened. The previous owner rebuilt them with the CR Performance billet wheel rebuild kit approximately 2 months before I bought it. Not sure if he did something wrong or if they just didn't last, but to answer your question, no, the new rebuilt/upgraded turbo's have never produced boost since installation. I contacted the tuner from Unleashed and gave him the serial numbers, strategies, etc and told him what I was doing. He assured me the tune I currently had would be suffice unless I started adding fuel pump upgrades, in which I would need a new tune for.

Very odd situation indeed. I mean, I understand how engines and turbos work very well, this should've been a simple fix or find, but here we are..
 
Back
Top