piston ring swap with engine in car

[SM105K]

again, i’m as confident in my skills as you are in yours. who are you to tell me my measurements are off? have you checked them? or you just calculate measurements based off photos? please tyler, teach me. i find it hilarious your 37 year old self is this committed to refuting some measurements made by a teen.

I am 37 years old as well. I take everything you say and report with a grain of sand. @stripSHO is correct and I agree with his assessment.

You had an LSPI event. Hot weather, bad fuel, LMS tune. Best bet is find a good used motor, swap it, and get a better tune.

 

[stripSHO]

again, i’m as confident in my skills as you are in yours. who are you to tell me my measurements are off? have you checked them? or you just calculate measurements based off photos? please tyler, teach me. i find it hilarious your 37 year old self is this committed to refuting some measurements made by a teen.

I don't really give a c.rap about your measurements. We all think they're junk but that's just our insightful opinions based on the evidence presented. But what I've been trying to drive into that dense void skull of yours is that you don't even know what you're measuring or how to interpret (or disregard) the information. I'm obviously failing the mission. Here, let me try one last time, baby spoon edition. Open the hangar, here comes the airplane! BRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Let's spell this out one step at a time, referencing the shop manual and the information you've given thus far.

SECTION 303-00: Engine System — General Information

GENERAL PROCEDURES

Piston Ring End Gap
...
Use a piston without rings to push a piston ring in a cylinder to the bottom of ring travel.

yes, centered in bore with the piston.

Are you properly positioning the rings in the correct position for measuring? No.

Now this: (see if this doesn't resonate with our comments to you)

...
NOTE
The cylinder bore must be within specification for taper and out-of-round.
...
Refer to the appropriate Section 303-01 for the specification.

Ok lets dissect that a little bit...

SECTION 303-01B: Engine — 3.5L GTDI
Cylinder bore diameter 92.500-92.520 mm (3.641-3.642 in)

3.64” side to side 3.642” top to bottom

Is the bore diameter within specification? No.

Cylinder Bore Out-of-Round
NOTE
Refer to the appropriate Section 303-01 for the specification.

Measure the cylinder bore in 2 directions. The difference is the out-of-round.

SECTION 303-01B: Engine — 3.5L GTDI
Cylinder bore roundness 0.013 mm (0.0005 in)

3.64” side to side 3.642” top to bottom

Is the bore out-of-round within specification? No.

Cylinder Bore Taper
NOTE
Refer to the appropriate Section 303-01 for the specification.

Measure the cylinder bore at the top, middle and bottom of piston ring travel in 2 directions as indicated. Verify the cylinder bore is within the wear limit. The difference indicates the cylinder bore taper. If the cylinder bore taper does not meet specification, bore the cylinder to the next oversize limit.

SECTION 303-01B: Engine — 3.5L GTDI
Cylinder bore taper 0.010 mm (0.0004 in) per 25.4 mm (1 in)

Taper = 0.00?? I don't know what a tenth of a thou even is!

Is the bore taper within specification? Nobody knows. But who needs precision measurement when ya got CONFIDENCE!?!

In summation- is your bore within specification? No.

Now this really should go without saying, but BRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRrrrrrr.... a manufacturer specification for ring gap is only applicable to... wait for it... factory new rings! The chart @yaycandy showed you (BTW no chart needed, it's easy as Pi) is applicable to both cylinder bore and radial ring thickness cumulatively. It takes only 0.0005" surface wear on the cylinder and 0.0005" surface wear on the ring to open the ring gap by over 0.006". Not to mention, this is all being done on the basis that you believe your ring ends butted, which would have distorted them, affecting tolerances. This point alone demonstrates just how asinine this whole excercise is. You can't forensically tear down a worn or damaged engine and try to measure what the tolerances "used to be". That's why builders use build sheets to record all the relevant information before the machine is assembled, to have something to look back on if there's a failure.

SECTION 303-01B: Engine -- 3.5L GTDI
Piston ring width — upper comp ring 1.17-1.19 mm (0.0460-0.0468 in)
radial width -- ????

ring is .017” thick.
radial width -- ????

Are your rings factory new? No. Do your ring measurements even remotely resemble factory spec? No. Are you equipped to accurately declare the spec conformance of your cylinders? No.
Do your flippant feeler gauge follies have any relevance whatsoever? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, and NO.

Are you full yet, you little brat? Can we wipe the dribble off your chin now? Or do we need to get the ni.pple out?

 

[M.J]

This thread got me like

 

[withku]

so 500 miles down now, it runs good i think. y’all were helpful although i didn’t show much appreciation haha. regardless, thanks to everyone that responded.

engine knock via forscan ranges from 150 at idle to 900 WOT, so i think i’m good there.

AFR seems okay, 14.2 idle to 10.6 WOT. little rich.

IAT2 peaks around 140 at idle, over 2x ambient. not excited for summer temps but maybe i’ll have meth or an IC by then.

 

[yaycandy]

so 500 miles down now, it runs good i think. y’all were helpful although i didn’t show much appreciation haha. regardless, thanks to everyone that responded.

engine knock via forscan ranges from 150 at idle to 900 WOT, so i think i’m good there.

AFR seems okay, 14.2 idle to 10.6 WOT. little rich.

IAT2 peaks around 140 at idle, over 2x ambient. not excited for summer temps but maybe i’ll have meth or an IC by then.

Where you live you are better off just keep stock intercooler and run a good meth setup. Aem v3 for example. Yea power can be made with both but you wont feel the extra from the intercooler after going meth. E30/40 and meth.
Where i live in Pa where its 0-100F all year. I can run meth 6 months and with my intercooler setup that holds ambient well under 80 degrees, my intercooler handles itself well through the other 6 months without meth when its 50-60F max

 

[FrankK]

withku,

What did you end up doing/finding with the broken fuel pump?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[withku]

Where you live you are better off just keep stock intercooler and run a good meth setup. Aem v3 for example. Yea power can be made with both but you wont feel the extra from the intercooler after going meth. E30/40 and meth.
Where i live in Pa where its 0-100F all year. I can run meth 6 months and with my intercooler setup that holds ambient well under 80 degrees, my intercooler handles itself well through the other 6 months without meth when its 50-60F max

i can’t do ethanol, but i’m sure meth would be sufficient without an aggressive tune. preferably i would not even tune for it, just for cleaning and temps. do you need to calculate jet size? my knowledge on the subject is very limited.

aem v3 is the one i’ve been looking at due to simplicity and price. anyone have issues in the long term with them?

 

[withku]

withku,

What did you end up doing/finding with the broken fuel pump?

Thanks,
Frank

installed my hpfp roller tappet upside down, it busted.

 

[yaycandy]

i can’t do ethanol, but i’m sure meth would be sufficient without an aggressive tune. preferably i would not even tune for it, just for cleaning and temps. do you need to calculate jet size? my knowledge on the subject is very limited.

aem v3 is the one i’ve been looking at due to simplicity and price. anyone have issues in the long term with them?

Just get a noisemaker delete pipe and install the aem v3 into it. It atomizes nicely will last awhile. Set the dial to 8psi and watermeth should last a couple months. Kicks on when you wanna get on it and cleans valves at the same time. Buy from summit, dont order from Ortiz. I have friends still waiting on orders for months from them for various parts, mainly wilwood calipers

 

[FrankK]

installed my hpfp roller tappet upside down, it busted.

I was more interested in you finding the broken pieces. Were you able to get the pan off and check inside?

Frank

 

[withku]

I was more interested in you finding the broken pieces. Were you able to get the pan off and check inside?

Frank

majority were stuck on top of the head. i’m missing one small piece i believe, hoping my magnetic drain plug will catch it if it’s even in there.

 

[FrankK]

Thanks. Good luck

Maybe you should put a magnet on your oil filter too.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Just get a noisemaker delete pipe and install the aem v3 into it. It atomizes nicely will last awhile. Set the dial to 8psi and watermeth should last a couple months. Kicks on when you wanna get on it and cleans valves at the same time. Buy from summit, dont order from Ortiz. I have friends still waiting on orders for months from them for various parts, mainly wilwood calipers

Unless the order is for a tubing component that is affected by imports (downpipes and driveshafts) we ship same day 90% of the time. We have multiple dealer outlets that we source from and do our best to maximize price and lead times for our customers. I assume you are talking about @aaron240 from back when we ordered his calipers and I was quoted a week and a month later they still hadn't shipped and he ordered them off Summit and I refunded him for the full purchase that I gave him at my cost. After that transaction I opened an account with Summit/Atech Motorsports so that we could have multiple sources for the Wilwood and not face that issue again.

Not sure why you hate me so much given the amount of help I've given you the past few years, but please keep our companies name out of your smear campaigns. If you want to support conglomerates instead of a small business trying to survive a Covid economy go for it, but don't slander us for your personal satisfaction when you've never done business with us yourself.

 

[aaron240]

Unless the order is for a tubing component that is affected by imports (downpipes and driveshafts) we ship same day 90% of the time. We have multiple dealer outlets that we source from and do our best to maximize price and lead times for our customers. I assume you are talking about @aaron240 from back when we ordered his calipers and I was quoted a week and a month later they still hadn't shipped and he ordered them off Summit and I refunded him for the full purchase that I gave him at my cost. After that transaction I opened an account with Summit/Atech Motorsports so that we could have multiple sources for the Wilwood and not face that issue again.

Not sure why you hate me so much given the amount of help I've given you the past few years, but please keep our companies name out of your smear campaigns. If you want to support conglomerates instead of a small business trying to survive a Covid economy go for it, but don't slander us for your personal satisfaction when you've never done business with us yourself.

I was not thrilled about the wait time through Ortiz when purchasing the Wilwood calipers, however seeing how Lee made it right and also expanded his dealer network by now working with Summit I believe Ortiz can be better serve the SHO community which does us all good. There aren't many places to buy SHO parts these days and as long as they continue improving and learning from past mistakes we should help the small shops out.

 

[yaycandy]

Unless the order is for a tubing component that is affected by imports (downpipes and driveshafts) we ship same day 90% of the time. We have multiple dealer outlets that we source from and do our best to maximize price and lead times for our customers. I assume you are talking about @aaron240 from back when we ordered his calipers and I was quoted a week and a month later they still hadn't shipped and he ordered them off Summit and I refunded him for the full purchase that I gave him at my cost. After that transaction I opened an account with Summit/Atech Motorsports so that we could have multiple sources for the Wilwood and not face that issue again.

Not sure why you hate me so much given the amount of help I've given you the past few years, but please keep our companies name out of your smear campaigns. If you want to support conglomerates instead of a small business trying to survive a Covid economy go for it, but don't slander us for your personal satisfaction when you've never done business with us yourself.

Wow deja vu again from LMS responses a few years ago…

Countless responses like that on here to well established members. Same outcome.
Ive had plenty of business with Ortiz when ordering parts and tunes to have my opinion and to make sure people dont make the same mistake. As with LMS

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Wow deja vu again from LMS responses a few years ago…

Countless responses like that on here to well established members. Same outcome.
Ive had plenty of business with Ortiz when ordering parts and tunes to have my opinion and to make sure people dont make the same mistake. As with LMS

To my knowledge I've never sold anything to you other than a battery tiedown, and you said you loved it. I do see an old conversation where you said you had a tune from us for your Mustang and loved it, but I have no personal communication with you regarding it. Still trying to figure out where this is coming from Curtis...

 

[stripSHO]

Just get a noisemaker delete pipe and install the aem v3 into it. It atomizes nicely will last awhile. Set the dial to 8psi and watermeth should last a couple months. Kicks on when you wanna get on it and cleans valves at the same time. Buy from summit, dont order from Ortiz. I have friends still waiting on orders for months from them for various parts, mainly wilwood calipers

Are these the same "friends" that do 10 second 1/4 miles in their stock SHOs simply by disconnecting the RDU clutch?

 

[yaycandy]

To my knowledge I've never sold anything to you other than a battery tiedown, and you said you loved it. I do see an old conversation where you said you had a tune from us for your Mustang and loved it, but I have no personal communication with you regarding it. Still trying to figure out where this is coming from Curtis...

I also loved my LMS tune at one point… Love my current tune also, anything can happen

 

[Majestic]

Are these the same "friends" that do 10 second 1/4 miles in their stock SHOs simply by disconnecting the RDU clutch?

That was a good one.

 

[76FoMoCo]

Looks like we need judge Judy in some drama court.