Cylinder Number 5 Again (Bearings)

[egroce11]

Pulled the pan on the race car, #5 cylinder rod cap is black and loose on the crank, pulled the cap and the lower bearing is gone and the upper one is roasted into the rod, crank is scored but may be recoverable.

This is the same cylinder that I lost on the last one that took everything out.

My questions: How many of you have lost #5? It has to be oiling related, does anybody know why #5 isn't getting enough oil or what the problem could be if it isn't oil. Bearing clearance at the time of the build was 2 thousands, the same on all cylinders.

I'm running quaker 20/40 multi blend synthetic high RPM oil, the car only over heated once and that was to about 250 degrees, ran with 0 oil pressure once when we first put it together, (oil lines backwards) oil pressure was always up in the 50lbs area when racing,

Thanks for any help

Ernie

 

[firstgen89sho]

#5 sounds about right, either that or #2, seems to be the middle ones (on the past 4 engines that I examined that had spun)

 

[rubydist]

Did you plastigage it when you put in new bearings to make sure the clearance was okay? It sounds to me like that one had too large of clearance.

 

[MerkXRTurbo]

Stretching rod bolts???

 

[Off Road SHO]

Ernie,

Maybe you should do the Todd Cook modification to your engine. He ran a -4 (I believe) line from the oil pump chanel to the far end of the engine, and re-fed it into the oil galley at the oil pressure sending unit port.

I don't see Todd on here much anymore but I will try and get ahold of him and see if he can explain his system to you.

Tom

 

[egroce11]

All rods were plastigaged and had 2 thousands clearance.

Rod bolts are arp and brand new.

Tom, I would love it if you could find Todd and get me some pictures and directions to do that. This crap is getting expensive and disappointing at the track.

Ernie

 

[Off Road SHO]

Ernie,

It looks like he is still in business. He answers after hours sometimes. He is VERY good with customer service. (480) 967-7901

If he says it's okay, I will go over to his shop and take pictures for you. I always love going over there, he is such a great guy.

Tom

 

[egroce11]

Thanks, I'll try him in the A.M. I just got home and know it's late.

Ernie

 

[AREA 91]

All rods were plastigaged and had 2 thousands clearance.

Rod bolts are arp and brand new.

Tom, I would love it if you could find Todd and get me some pictures and directions to do that. This crap is getting expensive and disappointing at the track.

Ernie

Can you give us more info on the ARP rod bolts? Part number, size, cost, etc..?

 

[yamahaSHO]

IIRC, I think I lost #5 as well.


I vaguely remember Todd's setup and remember him explaining it to me at his shop, but it's been like 4 or 5 years, so I'm interested to hear about it again.

 

[sho_sc]

Pulled the pan on the race car, #5 cylinder rod cap is black and loose on the crank, pulled the cap and the lower bearing is gone and the upper one is roasted into the rod, crank is scored but may be recoverable.

This is the same cylinder that I lost on the last one that took everything out.

My questions: How many of you have lost #5? It has to be oiling related, does anybody know why #5 isn't getting enough oil or what the problem could be if it isn't oil. Bearing clearance at the time of the build was 2 thousands, the same on all cylinders.

I'm running quaker 20/40 multi blend synthetic high RPM oil, the car only over heated once and that was to about 250 degrees, ran with 0 oil pressure once when we first put it together, (oil lines backwards) oil pressure was always up in the 50lbs area when racing,

Thanks for any help

Ernie

1st : you may want to PM me the answer. But what size bearings are you using?

2nd: Ernie, I lost 3 bearings all at once when I blew a oil line off the Supercharger. I was WOT at about 6K RPM, I looked down and saw the oil light flicker. Pushed the clutch in and looked at the oil pressure gauge, saw very little pressure (something like 4 psi). Turned the car off and coasted off the road. Towed the SHO home. The SHO had about 1 qt of oil in it. I drained what oil was left, changed the filter and put 6 qts back in. Drove it easy, for about 50 miles with no signs of bad bearings. The first time I WOT to 7500 RPM, it spun 3 bearings. In retrospect, the only thing that could have indicated something wrong was the oil pressure was about 3-4 psi less at idle than it was before I ran it out of oil. I think I damaged the bearings via heat ...

 

[Phoenix]

Aww man that sucks bad , let us know if you find something. I hope you'll be able to save the internals.

 

[egroce11]

Talked to Todd today, as usual he didn't sound like he wanted to believe what I tried to tell him about my engine, O well, He explained his set up was for cam bearings.

The way he explained it was that he T'd of the oil pressure guage port ran a line to the back of the heads for the exhaust cams and ran a line into the plugged holes for the rear of the cams. He is also running his pressure guage off that area.

Thanks Tom, for the contact.

I'm still looking for a fix. If someone has the diagram for the oil passages and flow, I've seen one but don't know where, please send it to me. egroce11@comcast,net.

Ernie

Ransom I'll pm you

 

[Off Road SHO]

Hmmm, that is not how I remembered it, but oh well, I am old after all.

What is the plugged port on the front side of our oil pump? It can't be the over-pressure relief, that would be on the inside of the pan. I'll pull it out and see if it's the pressure side.

Tom

 

[yamahaSHO]

Talked to Todd today, as usual he didn't sound like he wanted to believe what I tried to tell him about my engine, O well, He explained his set up was for cam bearings.

The way he explained it was that he T'd of the oil pressure guage port ran a line to the back of the heads for the exhaust cams and ran a line into the plugged holes for the rear of the cams. He is also running his pressure guage off that area.

Thanks Tom, for the contact.

I'm still looking for a fix. If someone has the diagram for the oil passages and flow, I've seen one but don't know where, please send it to me. egroce11@comcast,net.

Ernie

Ransom I'll pm you

I thought it was for the cams. I remember him explaining to me how the oil flowed from one side of the head to the other and how he tried to overcome the lower flow/pressure on the trailing end.


As far as the #5 bearing.... A few years ago when Pat and I were rebuilding his race motor, we blew out the oil passages on the block with air and found that the air coming out of one of the holes for the main bearings was considerably less than the rest. We then did the same test on another block and it was the same. With how fast that oil is pumping through there, that could help aid that problem.

 

[egroce11]

Thanks Jason, I'll try that with the crank, mayve I can open the fournal.
Ernie

 

[yamahaSHO]

Ernie, I just want to make sure you knew I was talking about the block, not the crank. (I edited and then bolded it)

 

[SHOZ123]

Put some Auto-RX in it and clean out all the oil passages........

 

[gmail]

im gonna have to dig into this myself see what part of the oil passage is causing this... if its something easy enough to be drilled out or what it is.

from what im guessing if it was easy someone would have done it by now.

either way tho good find yamahaSHO and pat for this

 

[Storm-Chaser]

I'd agree with the partially blocked passage. Did you re-use either the block or crank from the prior engine ?

Also, it is the same passage in the block to the crankshaft main bearing journal #3, that provides oil to the #3 and #5 rod bearing journals (via a passage in crankshaft).

Food for thought . . . .