You wont believe THIS....................

[Mike Kopstain]

If the only thing the two blocks share is bore and stroke, how is it the same block or based off the other? I've always thought the Vulcan engine to be a complete POS, the Yamaha engine is pretty stout. Plus, the Vulcan is a pushrod engine, the Yamaha is a DOHC.

The Vulcan engine is arguably the most reliable engine Ford has ever made with the exception of the inline 6 300.

what kind of blower do the gm 3.8's have? they pretty plentifull and if they had a good displacment, might also be a good option. Corey

Loaded question Corey. The early Bonnevilles are running M62's, the newer (97'+) series II motors are running Gen III M90's, and the 04' - 05' Series III motors are running Gen V M90's. The Gen I M90 was used on the 89' - 93' Supercoupe and the Gen II was used on the 94' - 95' Supercoupe. With every revision the blower has gotten more efficient.

The problem with the blower is that it outputs hot air and is relatively inneficient, especially in it's early revisions.

That Eaton blower is awesome. I'd ditch my intake for that too. The intake was pretty much an over-engineered band-aid to give this high-revving engine some low end power. You have to remember, the SHO engine is not a Ford block in any way, shape, or form, so it's still a SHO.

I don't think you could get any farther from the truth if you got in that new aerospace toy and flew out to the next universe. If patents are any judge, Yamaha was working on this intake long before they were working on the block. If anything, the rest of the motor was probably designed to take advantage of the intake. My .02 at least.

 

[Machspeed]

I don't see why this setup would create much more load on the rod bearings than the vortech cetrifugal setup. That belt is going to slip the way it is, however...

An I think the engine will hold up just as well as sticking the Vortech setup on... I hope you have a Quaife and a strong transaxle!

I would also suggest a TwEECer. An LPM is not going to be nearly enough tuning to make that thing run to it's max potential. A TwEECer will give you the power to make power.

An who said the SHO was dead? Somebody forgot to tell me.

That Eaton blower is awesome. I'd ditch my intake for that too. The intake was pretty much an over-engineered band-aid to give this high-revving engine some low end power. You have to remember, the SHO engine is not a Ford block in any way, shape, or form, so it's still a SHO.

Dude its tyler he knows EXACTLY whats hes doing

 

[yamahaSHO]

At low rpm, the Vortech doesn't put any extra stress for the fact you are still seeing vacuum at the manifold (at low rpm).

 

[AutoSHO]

I don't see why this setup would create much more load on the rod bearings than the vortech cetrifugal setup.

A vortech setup builds boost pretty linearly towards redline. You don't start seeing a meaningful amount of boost until at least 4000 rpm in most supercharged SHOs. This works well with a SHO because of the oiling system the SHO uses - at idle and low engine speed, the engine runs very low oil pressure. With a roots blower, you're going to be running a significant amount of boost at idle/off idle engine speeds, where oil pressure is < 20 psi. This is definately going to cause the rod bearings to wear more than a naturally aspirated/centrifugal type blower car. At 10 PSI you are adding roughly 70% more load to the pistons/rod bearings. At low rpm, this turns into a very long time without adequate oil pressure to maintain a good oil film. That is why I suggested that the rod bearings may wear significantly quicker.

 

[SHOspazz92]

Have you read this whole thread or checked this guys sig? The belt slipping has already been mentioned and this guy has had some fast SHO's so my guess is he knows that he SHOULD (he don't NEED) get a quaife and such. Also the SHO motors block is based off the vulcan block, only thing they share is bore and stroke. Without the basis of the vulcan block the SHO motor would never exist.

Tyler has a Quaife In his car. The times In his sigs are from one car, His black 93 MTX, The same car that got the Roots Setup. As for the rest of your post, I strongly suggest you know what your talking about before you try to go educate people, Or try to correct them.

 

[SHOguy 92]

Josh, PLEASE know what you are talking about before you post.

Did ford not hand over a vulcan motor to yamaha? They did and yamaha messed with it, ripped it apart trying to put heads on it. I'm sorry if you think I meant they based as in looked and refined. I meant otherwise, without ford giving yamaha a "starting point" the motor probably would have been far diffrent. Thats what I meant, which exactly why I said base, not modification....

 

[yamahaSHO]

No, because they had a car in mind. The motor had to be a certain size and mate up to an existing transmission(bolt pattern). The Vulcan was dropped and is NO part of the SHO. Regardless of Ford giving them a motor to work with, the size/type of motor was already determined.

 

[1slickRED89]

Loaded question Corey. The early Bonnevilles are running M62's, the newer (97'+) series II motors are running Gen III M90's, and the 04' - 05' Series III motors are running Gen V M90's. The Gen I M90 was used on the 89' - 93' Supercoupe and the Gen II was used on the 94' - 95' Supercoupe. With every revision the blower has gotten more efficient.

thats a loaded anwser!! thanks Mr. Kopstain!! it looked like the GM units had the throttle body mount already cast in, so it might make things easier. it's good to know exactly which cars have the correct blower for this job. thanks, Corey

 

[SHOguy 92]

No, because they had a car in mind. The motor had to be a certain size and mate up to an existing transmission(bolt pattern). The Vulcan was dropped and is NO part of the SHO. Regardless of Ford giving them a motor to work with, the size/type of motor was already determined.

So the fact that random parts like starters can be swapped and other things has nothing to do with anything... I can understand them having a bolt pattern for the transmission and so on, but using a pre-existing starter

 

[yamahaSHO]

Do you know where the starter mounts to?

 

[SHOguy 92]

I'm a fool

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

You didnt answer the question

The starter has nothing to do with the design of the engine. It bolts to the trans.

 

[SHOguy 92]

You didnt answer the question

The starter has nothing to do with the design of the engine. It bolts to the trans.

:laugh_ti: :laugh_ti: :laugh_ti: I'm done, not in a thinking state.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Not to turn this into a origin post, but they did try to use the Vulcan block for the motor but it's webbing started to crack in the upper rpms so they designed their own block. The fact that is shares the same bore & stroke is because they had originally planned to use the Vulcan block and most likely had all of their airflow and volumetric efficiency measurements drawn out for this combination. So a little from column A and a little from column B gets you the right answer.

Now back to the hotness known as Tyler's engine bay...

 

[SHOguy 92]

Not to turn this into a origin post, but they did try to use the Vulcan block for the motor but it's webbing started to crack in the upper rpms so they designed their own block. The fact that is shares the same bore & stroke is because they had originally planned to use the Vulcan block and most likely had all of their airflow and volumetric efficiency measurements drawn out for this combination. So a little from column A and a little from column B gets you the right answer.

Thats what I mentioned, the heads were far too agressive and torn the vulcan a new one. And thats why I thought the SHO motor was based off the vulcan. I never have read anywhere where it said it wasn't based off of the vulcan and from the sounds of the testing of the heads it made it sound like that was the base for the SHO motor... Meh oh well like said, back to the blower talk.

Mike, would there be anyway to make your IC work for this? Your GTP IC mounts directly under it doesn't it, so I suppose it would would for his idea, just make it sit up higher. I don't know if your IC would work for the revision I have in mind...

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

The blower is already going to be poking out of the hood.... whats another couple of inches

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Our IC could certainly be made to work though it adds another 1.91 inches to the stack. I'm not sure Tyler wants to cut a hole in his hood. Then again, I've always thought there would be something hot about a blower sticking out of the hood in an east west configuration.

Tyler, what size pulley are you running? If the early Gen M90's use the press-on pullies, we offer a non-slip pulley that has little "razors" that dig into the belt.

 

[SHOguy 92]

I was looking at roots blowers and in the summit catalog the blower that they sell for the 4.0L Fords like the explorers have a pulley. It sits almost directly below the blower pulley that would provide some monster grip so it doesn't slip also. I don't know what it'd take to adapt something like that onto the earlier Gen M90's. But I'm sure something could be worked up...

 

[95SE]

Tyler, what size pulley are you running? If the early Gen M90's use the press-on pullies, we offer a non-slip pulley that has little "razors" that dig into the belt.

The early and late Thunderbird SC superchargers all use bolt on pullies. But there are a few supercoupe guys that have gotten the "razor" type pullies..

check around over at www.sccoa.com

 

[Toolman]

Wow, just got back from vacation (and an abscence from the board) and 6 pages on this Roots. VERY SWEET. So cool to see alternative boosting methods. That car sounds very good. And for the price, very nice. Once you get some numbers and times from this car, a great argument could be made for SHO's and Bang for the buck (which is never the case with FI). Great poineer spirit. Very impressive.

As far as the rod bearing wear, I would not be too concerned. My turbo has 50k miles on its rod bearings, and I see boost much quicker than centrifugal guys. Not as quick as a Roots, but I still do not see rod bearing failure as a big concern. But it does warrant an inspection/replacement schedule on a much shorter interval than NA cars.

Hope you come to the indy convention. Would be very sweet to have four routes of FI there (SS-FPS, Powerdyne, Roots and turbo).

As far as the $400 layout, please help people understand that a cheap old SHO and $400 does not make a reliable powerful vehicle. Please never forget the maintenance and supporting modifications that will be necessary to harness this power for years of corvette-spanking performance and mouth-wide-open enjoyment.

Once again, congratulations.