You wont believe THIS....................

[Mike Kopstain]

So if you set the pulleys for 10psi, the same M-90 will pull like **** to about 4000 and then nose over just like it does in the GTP.

Boost raises relative to throttle albeit slightly. I'm making 10lbs off of the line and 14 at the shift. Agreed that an older M90 is going to choke up top however. It's still going to make the boost but the air is going to be so hot that the knock at that RPM will negate any gains.

This is a bit puzzling if you say that the boost goes down on the Grand Prix as the RPM gets higher. I would expect it to go the other way, especially considering that motor's poor inherent VE (pushrod, standard heads & cams).

It does not. It ramps up (see above). The only time the blower would come down as it's being spun faster is if the belt was slipping. On cars with secondaries still on them I wouldn't be surprised to see a slight drop in boost when those open but the boost should still raise until redline, albeit it's going to be pretty hot at those speeds. Even with a cam that requires a vacuum canister we can still see the boost ramp up with RPM.

Now, two downfalls, out the hole power is delivered in smoke... That leads to two things. Burnt tires and dead trannies.

This doesn't have to be the case. New toys like our suspension limiters help to keep the wheels on the ground. Transaxle components can be saved by lightening the rotating assembly. A lightweight flywheel, while not ideal for drag racing, helps to keep transmission "shock" to a minimum and should increase the amount of torque you can put through the transmission. Other things like lightening the car will also increase the amount of torque the car can take but most probably don't want to be riding around in a unibody with a seat. The ideal candidate for this supercharger would be an automatic transmission car that someone wants to turn into a 1/4 mile car.

The power off the line (immense amount of torque) is going to make short work of the MTX-IV. An automatic transmission can be beefed up to deal with this, and a looser converter would reduce some of the drivetrain shock.

I'd be interested in seeing the long term affects of this setup on Tyler's car.

 

[.SHOoff.]

Then do something cheap to your Neon. Plain and simple, you're now complaining about a 5-10psi alternative at the price of ~$2-3k w/o tuning to a steeper $4,600+ to get similar results, yet yielding less torque.

First off, I did do something cheap to the Neon, and I'm not complaining about an alternative to anything.

Now, two downfalls, out the hole power is delivered in smoke... That leads to two things. Burnt tires and dead trannies. Therefore, even if you DID get your car set up for $400, not only would the untuned motor (which would take ~$1k to get it right in line) suck, but even the chance of 330ft-lbs~ hitting the pavement will immediately begin it's mission to end it's life. Doug may be able to fill you in on a FPS trans, but this is new ****** soil you're walking on so don't expect nothing than a lot of things for your dawning future.

As Mikey stated. Also my tranny is ready for it, I've got close to 4K into the POS, because we can't do anything with a tranny like that.

Now for the point, if you have absolutely nothing POSITIVE to add to something like this, then leave it out for the sake of the project. People become easily irritated and extremely frustrated when their OWN project is suddenly a demanded mod for EVERYONE else! This is his own project so IF and WHEN he does decide it's time to begin mass producing what he has to offer, hold off with the obnxious price tagging.

Speak for your self. I have said nothing Negitive. There is NO patend on this project, and I am working on my own idea, not stealing his. If he can do it for around $400, I figured I might be able to too
Its not a demanded mod for everyone alse, its like a new toy that every kid wants.

I better stop.

 

[95SE]

:corn:

 

[centaurus3200]

demon, if he think he has tyler's expertise and access to a CNC for $400, i wouldn't get to worked up. it's his car, he can do whatever he wants to it.

now, if someone complains that it cost tyler $400, therefore why is he charging $2500, then that's total BS.

tyler is finishing college, he is down on funds. why in the world should he fab another blower kit up at cost, or even double his cost? there's still not enough money to be made, considering the labor to create another one. his time is worth A LOT more than the materials involved.

if tyler wants to sell his creation for $2500, so be it. still worth it considering the labor involved. if anybody doesn't like that, then do it yourself. and don't get mad if tyler doesn't share the plans with anybody either. he doesn't have to.

end of story.

see ya,
Robby

First off, I did do something cheap to the Neon, and I'm not complaining about an alternative to anything.

As Mikey stated. Also my tranny is ready for it, I've got close to 4K into the POS, because we can't do anything with a tranny like that.

Speak for your self. I have said nothing Negitive. There is NO patend on this project, and I am working on my own idea, not stealing his. If he can do it for around $400, I figured I might be able to too
Its not a demanded mod for everyone alse, its like a new toy that every kid wants.

I better stop.

 

[SHOnuff93]

You say i do not have a patent on this, but you are warned not to copy it too closely. Cal Poly owns half of this project because it was my Senior Project. If you copy it too closely i will turn it over to them and they can seek some sort of action.

I am all for you building one of your OWN design, i would even help, but dont copy this one. Also don't complain about the price, thats the cost to build it, even if i sold it at $1000 i would be losing alot of money due to time.

I have NO intention of copying this setup for anyone but friends, unless you want to pony up the $2500 for me to do it.

Also, Lance Cheney tuned on it a bit with a Tweecer borrowed from John Miller (thanks go out to both of you). Lance informed me that the stock injectors are at around 99.XX% duty cycle by 5000RPM but it feels pretty good till then. Soon enough i will have the larger injectors in place and the 80mm maf and get it tuned up proper. STAY TUNED......................

 

[Lance Cheney]

Boost raises relative to throttle albeit slightly. I'm making 10lbs off of the line and 14 at the shift. Agreed that an older M90 is going to choke up top however. It's still going to make the boost but the air is going to be so hot that the knock at that RPM will negate any gains.


It does not. It ramps up (see above). The only time the blower would come down as it's being spun faster is if the belt was slipping. On cars with secondaries still on them I wouldn't be surprised to see a slight drop in boost when those open but the boost should still raise until redline, albeit it's going to be pretty hot at those speeds. Even with a cam that requires a vacuum canister we can still see the boost ramp up with RPM.

Ok, this is what the numbers would suggest (Doug's reply was not accurate). The latest M90 should be good for -- on a stock motor -- 7-8psi across the rev range if you're willing to spin the blower all the way to 12k (at 7000 engine RPM). Even the older ones should be good for 6. We'll see how it looks when we get tuned results.

For anyone that thinks a 6psi boost won't do much, remember that we're talking about a ~30% increase in torque at a given RPM, even after the blower load. That's pretty decent, and most of it will be available at 2500 RPM if the motor will take it without pulling all the spark advance out.

Also, I'm going to add that -- based on my initial driving/tuning -- this should be a real fun (and fast!) driver with a few parts swapped out and the final tuning done. Even with the stock injectors, MAF, and a few small bugs to work out, the car has got some serious torque advantage over a stock motor.

-Lance

 

[89shoZuL]

Basically what he's trying to say, is it hauls ***! Was taken around for a joy ride and with it barely tuned... the **** gets up! Can't wait to see the finish product.

 

[Machspeed]

Im about to drive 30 minutes to tylers house and jack that thing.

 

[.SHOoff.]

You say i do not have a patent on this, but you are warned not to copy it too closely. Cal Poly owns half of this project because it was my Senior Project. If you copy it too closely i will turn it over to them and they can seek some sort of action.

I am all for you building one of your OWN design, i would even help, but dont copy this one. Also don't complain about the price, thats the cost to build it, even if i sold it at $1000 i would be losing alot of money due to time.

I am not copying anything nor would I copy someone else idea.

Since this thing started it got me dreaming again, now I want to do it to my 95 ATX, but a little differently.
I thought, and even broke out a tape measure, and I think we could put one in the front, over the valve cover, inbetween the intake and rad support, on a custom fabbed mount. Some concern is relocating the oil fill to the rear vavle cover, and how to route the belt.
What I want to do is use a older GM unit like a M-62 IIRC and fashion an adapter for pipeing where the TB was, then draw the air threw the stock air box via some sort of piping. The compressed air will the travel down by the tranny to a small factory eclipse/talon intercooler under the front bumper, then back up though the fenderwell and to the intake.

The only thing these two set-ups share is the use of a roots type supercharger.
And never one time did a complain about the $2500 price tag.

SHOnuff93, if I have offended you or led you to think something that is not, I apologize....I just want a faster whip.

 

[K-Dawg]

Don't higher flowrate injectors typically raise the fuel rails from the stock position?

 

[AutoSHO]

Don't higher flowrate injectors typically raise the fuel rails from the stock position?

No, they only require the rails to be machined to accept a slightly larger OD in the Injector holes.

 

[ArkanSHO]

at 7000 RPM the blower is going to be spinning 11500 rpm, and should be making about 10psi, but that will be seen when i get it running properly and get a guage installed.

Just a note about 10 PSI: The resistance from mine at that pressure causes the primary belt to slip big time since I swapped to a cogged belt like you have placed between the alternator and SC'r. This in turn caused the primary belt wear prematurley, which is no fun to change on a Gen 3. I tried replacing the tensioner but still had the slippage. Of course the disadvantage on mine is that the belt on the blower is no fun to change either. I am going back to the non-cogged pulley and belt so the secondary belt is the one that fails but beats the heck out of loosing the primary while on a long trip.

 

[SHOnuff93]

I installed a boost guage into the manifold yesterday, and it looks like i am making just about 10psi.

When i get it tuned this thing will be a fun little car to drive around. Once i get it tuned i am planning on freshening up my spare 3.2 and dropping that in. Leaving the pully sizes the same as they are now boost should drop about 1.5 psi.

My goals once its tuned up are 300hp/300tq at the wheels. This should put me pretty close to the 12's

 

[somedude_001]

I like the way this is progressing! I like the fact that this will work on both atx & mtx (of course with a properly done up tranny).

what would that "kit" include

i'll start putting in the overtime and saving my change!

 

[Lupo]

Just a note about 10 PSI: The resistance from mine at that pressure causes the primary belt to slip big time since I swapped to a cogged belt like you have placed between the alternator and SC'r. This in turn caused the primary belt wear prematurley, which is no fun to change on a Gen 3. I tried replacing the tensioner but still had the slippage. Of course the disadvantage on mine is that the belt on the blower is no fun to change either. I am going back to the non-cogged pulley and belt so the secondary belt is the one that fails but beats the heck out of loosing the primary while on a long trip.

Carter, I recommend one of these babies:

They make them in 6,8, and 10 rib; all different types. I'm getting no more slip.

 

[95SE]

The one in the pic is a press on, do they make a bolt on for the M-90 he has? If so I'd be interested in one for my supercoupe!

 

[Lupo]

The one in the pic is a press on, do they make a bolt on for the M-90 he has? If so I'd be interested in one for my supercoupe!

I wouldn't consider it press on, it just slid on. It has a key, and a bolt to secure it.
Yes, they do make ones for Eaton. Go to www.reichardracing.com

 

[ArkanSHO]

Carter, I recommend one of these babies:

They make them in 6,8, and 10 rib; all different types. I'm getting no more slip.

Where can I get that pulley? I need three designed like that.

 

[K-Dawg]

www.reichardracing.com

 

[2L8V8_4sho]

I am all for you building one of your OWN design, i would even help, but dont copy this one. Also don't complain about the price, thats the cost to build it, even if i sold it at $1000 i would be losing alot of money due to time.

I have NO intention of copying this setup for anyone but friends, unless you want to pony up the $2500 for me to do it.

Great job on the supercharger and all. But I don't understand what you're losing if one of us copies it if you're not planning on making lots of these. I see where if a company were to copy it and sell it how you would be screwed. I'm 16, have welding skills, but I'm not too much for the engineering department. What would you lose if I were to copy your manifold design?