You wont believe THIS....................

[SHOnuff93]

I know that the newer blowers are more efficient, and twin screw compressors are much better but cost is a huge issue, i currently have $0 to spend and $23,000 in college loans to start paying back. If someone wants to supply me with a 1.6L twin screw compressor i will gladly build you a manifold to put it on the sho as well as the rest of the intaKe plumbing at no additional cost whatsoever.

The idea to use the blower with the cast in TB mount is a bit weird. I would have cut it off in order to mount a ford TB on it anyway so what i have now works well.

 

[centaurus3200]

tyler,

i think you need to add another X for your proposed trap speed on the blower car. you will be in 3 digits ;-)

see ya,
Robby

 

[SHOguy 92]

tyler,

i think you need to add another X for your proposed trap speed on the blower car. you will be in 3 digits ;-)

see ya,
Robby

Respost

 

[rktmn]

Congratulations Tyler, it looks like you pulled it off.

I had considered going that rout myself right after I made the first SHOrt Shifter, but never got around to it.

The idea of installing a Wipple Charger has been going around my head since, but I guess i never focused on it.

Here is a link to the original thread on the forum.

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=2397&highlight=ROOTS+BLOWER


If there is anything that I can help you with, I will do so gladly.

You may want to post some detailed photos of your prototype setup and any problems that you may come accross.

From seeing you pics, I think that you may be able to get the blower lower to the engine, by cutting the intake box or the runners a bit here and there.

How high does it sit past the hood?

It would be nice to get it under the cowl hood at least.

 

[SHOnuff93]

I just got a spare hood today and will be hacking it up shortly to see how high it sits.

The ideas to lower it are all good, but the fuel rails screw it all up, the bottom of the intake is very close to them so i had nowhere to go but up. It may be possible to make it shoorter but i had no idea where it would be a restriction.

 

[luigisho]

IIRC Shaun P. talked about running individual fuel lines to each injector before he jumped out of the SHO stuff. Design wise it sounds like the right approach but proper fuel flow and pressure might be a headache. It's been done on other cars so the know-how is out there somewhere.

 

[1slickRED89]

IIRC Shaun P. talked about running individual fuel lines to each injector before he jumped out of the SHO stuff. Design wise it sounds like the right approach but proper fuel flow and pressure might be a headache. It's been done on other cars so the know-how is out there somewhere.

nissan fuel injecors already have a provistion for this. i can think of a bunch of atvantages to doing this. however they would probably be even taller than the fuel rail setup the SHO currently has.

Corey

 

[RoadSHO]

Tyler,
The idea about a twin screw blower had been kicking around in my head also. Maybe we can discuss some ideas about putting one on my 3.4L V-8. Same idea might work. That could be some awesome power potential. Hope to see you on the 19th.
Take care.

 

[FrOsTyShO]

Here's an idea thats been floating in my head. The air box can't go any lower because of the fuel rails. So if you were to put an "indent" in the bottom of the air box to allow the air box to sit onto the rails maybe you could lower the blower a bit. And i don't know if there is even enough room to fit this. As long as you guys don't think this would cause a restriction because it would be between the middle of the box and the intakes on the heads. But they don't have to be huge or fit the whole rail, just enough to maybe fit it under a cowl hood. But anyway, heres my quick sketch, but like mikey said im not a artist either. Hope you get the idea:

 

[SHOnuff93]

There is already an "indent" in the bottom of the manifodl that i built to allow for fule rails. I suppose you could lower the whole thing but then the runners get even shorter. It will be difficult to fit it directly on top of the engine and still clear a cowl. I have a few ideas of how to get it to work though and we will see what happens.

 

[FrOsTyShO]

Ok i see now. Sorry im rusty on what the sho motor looks like in detail, my sho has been in a carbag for the last year and 2 months. (yes ive been counting). The rails are right in the middle so you could make a huge indent right in the middle, like you already have and just make it a smooth curve almost as having the whole bottom as an arch. So I'm thinking that the very bottom of this box is not mounted directly to the intakes on the heads, do you have some kind of straight runners that you fabbed up? What would be the advantadges/disadvanteges of no runners? Btw anyone know of what the clearance is between the intakes on the heads (No upper manifold) and the stock hood or cowl?

 

[.SHOoff.]

Since this thing started it got me dreaming again, now I want to do it to my 95 ATX, but a little differently.
I thought, and even broke out a tape measure, and I think we could put one in the front, over the valve cover, inbetween the intake and rad support, on a custom fabbed mount. Some concern is relocating the oil fill to the rear vavle cover, and how to route the belt.
What I want to do is use a older GM unit like a M-62 IIRC and fashion an adapter for pipeing where the TB was, then draw the air threw the stock air box via some sort of piping. The compressed air will the travel down by the tranny to a small factory eclipse/talon intercooler under the front bumper, then back up though the fenderwell and to the intake.
I don't want mad HP, maybe 300 or so, I think this settup would be good for an extra 80-90 HP at maybe 4-5lbs. of boost with the right sized pulley

Questions-
What fuel pump?
What injectors?
How do you get oil to it?
What MAF?
Anything I overlooked?
Am I crazy for wanting a 300hp ATX?

 

[AutoSHO]

Questions-
What fuel pump?
What injectors?
How do you get oil to it?
What MAF?
Anything I overlooked?
Am I crazy for wanting a 300hp ATX?

1) 190 LPH should be more than enough.
2) 30-36 lb would be plenty
3) Most eatons are self-contained. You change the oil every 10-15k miles. It is completely separate from the engine oiling system.
4) Lincoln 80mm
5) TwEECer RT
6) Yes.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

What I want to do is use a older GM unit like a M-62 IIRC and fashion an adapter for pipeing where the TB was, then draw the air threw the stock air box via some sort of piping.

The old M90s are innefficient. The old M62s are less efficient and won't get the job done. You'll be forcing superheated air into your intake. Your intercooler will most likely just cool the air to that of a non-intercooled Gen III M90.

The compressed air will the travel down by the tranny to a small factory eclipse/talon intercooler under the front bumper, then back up though the fenderwell and to the intake.

There is a lot of work involved in that type of setup. You might just mount a water/ air IC core under the supercharger.

I don't want mad HP, maybe 300 or so, I think this settup would be good for an extra 80-90 HP at maybe 4-5lbs. of boost with the right sized pulley

Probably not. The SHO motor makes it's peak HP up high, right where the Eaton will fall off. You'll see a significant jump in torque and probably a not so significant increase in peak horsepower. Not to worry though: Torque is what makes a car feel fast.

Questions-
What fuel pump? - 155lph
What injectors? - Adjustable Boost referencing FPR/ stock injectors
How do you get oil to it? - The only part of the blower that contains oil is the snout (self contained)
What MAF? - Older Cobra 80mm (some of the Lincoln MAFs had a relatively low CFM ceiling)
Anything I overlooked? - Transmission
Am I crazy for wanting a 300hp ATX? - Heck no. I wouldn't want all that torque running through the MTX-IV. Only Tyler will be able to tell us how it stands up.

 

[95SE]

watch this video, then close your eyes and pretend its a SHO..

This is a mostly stock '92 supercoupe, with only a shift kit, '95 blower swap, 5% od pulley and a MAC cold air intake.

automatic SC

The fenderwell cold air intake kit from MAC really amplifies the blower whine!

Jeramie

 

[GreenLanternSHO]

All i have to say is Wow

 

[SHO Dude]

If you're only gonna make 5-6psi of boost, intercooling is pointless.

PD blowers reach peak efficiency instantly, but the faster you turn them, the less efficient they become. So at the hit of the throttle, you've got a ton of torque, plenty to roast the tires and throw diff pins. Then the faster you turn the engine, the more inefficient the blower becomes until it reaches a point where the blower case itself becomes the restriction. So an M-90 will just barley feed our engines at 7000rpm while making 4-5psi of boost. Any higher boost levels and it'll fall on it's face at lower rpm. So if you set the pulleys for 10psi, the same M-90 will pull like **** to about 4000 and then nose over just like it does in the GTP.

 

[Lance Cheney]

I find this an interesting discussion. Looking at the inlet flow charts for the latest iteration of the M90, and assuming a theoretical max 90ci intake, I get these #s while doing a VE calculation @ 5psi (supercharger RPM):

@ 4000 RPM - theoretical = 90ci * 4000 RPM / 1728 ci/cfm = 208.3 cfm
real = 150 ; VE = 150/ 208.3 = 72% (yuck)

@ 8000 RPM - 416.7 cfm
real = 350; VE = 350/416.7 = 84%

@ 12000 RPM - 625 CFM
real =540; VE = 540/625 = 86.4%

10psi #s are somewhat lower, worse at low RPMs (@ 4000 RPM VE = 62%, but at 12000 it is back up to 83%).

This would suggest that -- at least on the newer M90s -- that you would achieve very good results and actually have HIGHER (boost) at high RPMs, assuming the engine continued to have good VE properties to match. It will be interesting to see how much different the VE is with the non-standard intake.

This is a bit puzzling if you say that the boost goes down on the Grand Prix as the RPM gets higher. I would expect it to go the other way, especially considering that motor's poor inherent VE (pushrod, standard heads & cams).

-Lance

 

[.SHOoff.]

But I don't want to pay $500-1000 for a cheap supercharger set up. the $400 cost of his set-up is what caught my eye.
What blower would be good for this (not perfect) but good for an ATX
I don't want mind blowing TQ/HP, I just want relaible power delievery with that wonderful sound.

 

[DemonNeno]

But I don't want to pay $500-1000 for a cheap supercharger set up. the $400 cost of his set-up is what caught my eye.
What blower would be good for this (not perfect) but good for an ATX
I don't want mind blowing TQ/HP, I just want relaible power delievery with that wonderful sound.

Then do something cheap to your Neon. Plain and simple, you're now complaining about a 5-10psi alternative at the price of ~$2-3k w/o tuning to a steeper $4,600+ to get similar results, yet yielding less torque.

Now, two downfalls, out the hole power is delivered in smoke... That leads to two things. Burnt tires and dead trannies. Therefore, even if you DID get your car set up for $400, not only would the untuned motor (which would take ~$1k to get it right in line) suck, but even the chance of 330ft-lbs~ hitting the pavement will immediately begin it's mission to end it's life. Doug may be able to fill you in on a FPS trans, but this is new ****** soil you're walking on so don't expect nothing than a lot of things for your dawning future.

Now for the point, if you have absolutely nothing POSITIVE to add to something like this, then leave it out for the sake of the project. People become easily irritated and extremely frustrated when their OWN project is suddenly a demanded mod for EVERYONE else! This is his own project so IF and WHEN he does decide it's time to begin mass producing what he has to offer, hold off with the obnxious price tagging.

Sorry, I'm sick of losing faithful enthusiasts' to the bickering and mindlessness (is that a word?!) of others who aren't of the least bit positive towards it.

Continue on, sir. I just HAD to let that off my burning shoulders...