need serous stopping power

[ManySHOs]

You can get 12.5 set up from Baer Racing. However the caliper will require some grinding to fit under slicers. My calipers were ground when I got them. I would consider getting Todd's wilwood setup that will fit under slicers. 4 piston calipers and a very large selection of pads. Also the wilwood setup is one of the lightest so you will get better handling too.

http://tceperformanceproducts.com/

Bob

Todd's kit that fits under slicers uses a .81" thick rotor. I'd advise using the thicker 1.1" rotor instead. The bottom line is that for a serious brake kit, he'll probably have to get a larger rim. The slicers are horrible for accommodating larger brakes and they're not very wide either.

Ian

 

[chknhwk]

but I got azeni 615's.

Don't forget, the stickier your tires the harder your brakes will work. I should have pointed that out earlier.

 

[SHO92]

did you have any problems overheating with those pads? and definately run the R4S pads in the rear.

I haven't had any problems at all with Hawk HP+ up front and Raybestos Carbon Metallics in the rear.

Also, I was under the impression that Todd doesn't sell the .81" rotor kit any more. So you're only option for big brakes under slicers is the NWSHO kit or the Baer kit, both 12.5" but the Baer one can be upgraded to 2 piece rotors from Todd.

 

[somedude_001]

what baer kit, i've looked for it but i can't find it. do you have a link?

I haven't had any problems at all with Hawk HP+ up front and Raybestos Carbon Metallics in the rear.

MY CAR IS TURBO CHARGED IT GOES REALLY FAST HP+'S ARE USELESS ON MY CAR. sorry but i've said that like 3 times already unless you are refering to those pads on 12.5"

 

[Toolman]

check your PM's somedude

 

[somedude_001]

no check your pm's

 

[drivinhard]

I'd order up as set of TD 1.2's 17x8", put some 235/45/17 track rubber on it them (RA-1's, etc). Or some 245/45/17 V710,s or V700s.

I could lap gratton in my 92 (~250 hp) on my race tires/brakes faster than you could with 400 hp on your slicers. That's not a knock on your car, that's a + for getting proper wheels/tires.

Remember, regardless of what car you have, and power, and brakes, the ONLY connection between said vehicle, and the surface you are on, are 4 little contact patches about 4"x9". Tire is EVERYTHING, and the correct width wheel behind said tire, is also everything.

Having driven a bunch of stuff, and been on ALL kinds of different tires on the track, gimme an average car on great tires over a great car on average tires, anyday.

BTW because of the name of the thread, true track rubber IS serious stopping power. Tires stop the car, not the brakes.

 

[somedude_001]

Tires stop the car, not the brakes.

true but i need repeteability. I think you are right, even though my car has decent suspention and decent rubber the rims are way too small and that is going to cost me a lot of speed. and another comment that nobody has made is sticky rubber can help keeping your brakes cooler because you don't have to slow down as much to corner. take the corner at 50 instead of 40. although if you are stopping at the tires limit then it probably ballances out.

 

[Shoaz]

BTW because of the name of the thread, true track rubber IS serious stopping power. Tires stop the car, not the brakes.

Yup. And they turn it, too.

My previous comments about making the 11.6" brakes work are in the context of the previous posts about just doing it for one convention track event. The idea is that for one event you can have fun, just be careful managing the brakes, and you can do the event without shelling out $$ for a brake kit and tires and wheels to go with them.

But if you really want to _drive_ the car, explore it's limits (and yours), and wring out the turbo, then Mark is spot-on in that you'll want as much brake as you can get and tires and wheels to go with it.

I just went back and reviewed the thread and I see you've got "Cobra" (which I assume means PBR HD) calipers on 11.6" rotors. If you want to upgrade those to the 12.5" PBR kit (or equivalent), you'd need to change the knuckles, modify them, etc., etc. The Baer 12.5" kit used a different rotor offset than the other PBR-calipered kits, and modified pre-94 knuckles. You could make a bracket to use 12.5" rotors, but you'd have to find some rotors to fit or cut them down from 13" rotors (and you'd need a BIG spacer to get the slicers over them).

You can make the 11.6" rotors work on slicers, and you can have fun doing it at Grattan, but you won't be as quick as you would be with better wheels/tires and you'll have to manage the brakes more than you would with bigger rotors.

People bring some pretty nutty equipment to track days sometimes (e.g., rented Altimas) and still have fun, you just have to have your expectations in the right place and drive accordingly.

 

[drivinhard]

and another comment that nobody has made is sticky rubber can help keeping your brakes cooler because you don't have to slow down as much to corner. take the corner at 50 instead of 40.

You're catching on

But also know that the previous corner you also came off of onto the straight, you left at 10 mph faster to, so your delta for scrubbing off speed is going to be about the same.

The track rubber also allows MORE brake pressure during decel, so the stopping distances are shorter (both in feet, and time) which if you buy into the harder/shorter runs cooler philosphy, buys you something.

In any event, if you plan to do track work, big 'ole wheels with lots of room for big brakes and plenty of width to support nice wide race rubber is where it's at. Like eric says, you can have fun with just about anything (within reason) with a good sticky contact patch and good brakes. All that hp you got is just icing on the cake.

 

[ManySHOs]

what baer kit, i've looked for it but i can't find it. do you have a link?


MY CAR IS TURBO CHARGED IT GOES REALLY FAST HP+'S ARE USELESS ON MY CAR. sorry but i've said that like 3 times already unless you are refering to those pads on 12.5"

Yes, he was. SHO92 has a 12.5 Baer kit with TCE 2 piece rotors.

Ian

 

[somedude_001]

i have a lead on a set of 13" PBR's with 17" rims that have track ruber on them already for a god price so i'm going to jump on that. pbr's arn't ideal but they should definately do the job.

 

[chknhwk]

i have a lead on a set of 13" PBR's with 17" rims that have track ruber on them already for a god price so i'm going to jump on that. pbr's arn't ideal but they should definately do the job.

I beg to differ, PBR's are awesome. If you set them up right, i.e. proper pads and wheels and tires you probably won't ever need anything else again.

 

[Shoaz]

I beg to differ, PBR's are awesome. If you set them up right, i.e. proper pads and wheels and tires you probably won't ever need anything else again.

I'd agree, as long as they're the HD calipers (which is common).

Mine hold up great at the track. They're very low maintenance.

 

[SHO92]

Somedude, don't have a link, but the 12.5" kit is part of Baer's Sport series. It's in their application guide which is a PDF file on the Baer site.

I know you're car is turbo, but if you can't get the car slowed down for the corners, you won't be fast for very long. I have tracked the HP+ pads several times with my car. It's not turbo'd, but it's not stock either. I have had very good results with the pads, as have others. You've been knocking them without even trying them. I'm just saying they work well, and offering a counter point to those that say they suck. You say they're useless, but aren't you still running the Ford pads? The HP+ are a much better pad then the Fords, or the Baer pads that come with the calipers new.

 

[somedude_001]

i'm running HP+ pads on pbr HD calapers but i'm on 11.6" rotors not 12.5. I modified the brackets to work with 11.6 rotors (not that it was hard) the ford pads were a joke and it is very obvious that they were not designed for the small rotors. i get 1-2 stops with ford pads and they are toast, and 2-3 with HP+ pads. i'm talking 100-110mph to 30 everything i got while trying not to lock the rears. i can't wait to try these on 13" rotors they should do great. the 11.6 is a small rotor. and for those thinking about upgrading I personaly thing

for the casual racer the stock ford calapers with ford pads on 11.6" rotors were ballanced great. even with my heavy ass automatic i only ran into problems twice at gingerman.

 

[ManySHOs]

Are you smooth with your braking or are you trying to jam them on hard to slow down quickly? You're at a disadvantage with the ATX (not only because of the weight) but because you can't engine brake or match your revs while downshifting very efficiently.

While I don't advocate downshifting and rev'ing to 6K to slow down the car, it is helpful to downshift as you are slowing down; its less work on the brakes and it keeps you back in the powerband for exiting a turn. Yes, it's possible to downshift an ATX but it doesn't work as well as it does with an MTX.

Ian

 

[chknhwk]

You say they're useless, but aren't you still running the Ford pads? The HP+ are a much better pad then the Fords, or the Baer pads that come with the calipers new.

I would take the Baer pads (they're actually PBR pads) over the HP+ anyday of the week. I've tracked two Cobras and a Contour with PBR pads and the Cobra/PBR calipers with very consistent results.
In the end, though, it does come down to personal preference so don't be afraid to try a whole bunch of stuff.

 

[SHO92]

In all fairness to the PBR pads, I only ran them for a few days on the street until my HP+ pads came in the mail. I didn't do much except bed them in and drive to work.

Thats good to know about the PBR pads. They currently sit in my toolbox as the "get me home at the end of a track weekend" emergency pads.

 

[chknhwk]

Thats good to know about the PBR pads. They currently sit in my toolbox as the "get me home at the end of a track weekend" emergency pads.

Personally I think you're missing out on a lot if that's your only impression of them. If you've got the REAL PBR pads, not the junk Ford ones, then they are really good pads.