Lets talk roll cages

[Sho Amo]

I am currently shopping roll bars/cages and Id like some input. The car will most likely spend most of its time on the street, however I do plan to run some hpde's, autox, drag racing, and I really want to hit the maxton mile.

So, SS has a 4 point kit, ive got a lead on a used 6 point, or the guy who does my powdercoating said he can build one for me. I saw a bondurant car last weekend that had a cage which let him use harnesses in the back with passengers. That was awesome.

 

[zak]

The car will most likely spend most of its time on the street, however

Probably the most important thread to read on this subject on the internet:

http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=20586

It seems a bolt in roll bar, with FIA certified padding, and ONLY bolted in and out before and after track days, would be prudent for a dual purpose car..

 

[SHOspazz92]

I am currently shopping roll bars/cages and Id like some input. The car will most likely spend most of its time on the street, however I do plan to run some hpde's, autox, drag racing, and I really want to hit the maxton mile.

So, SS has a 4 point kit, ive got a lead on a used 6 point, or the guy who does my powdercoating said he can build one for me. I saw a bondurant car last weekend that had a cage which let him use harnesses in the back with passengers. That was awesome.

The car I am getting has the a cage designed for passengers, It's the worst cage design I've ever seen and won't pass inspection ANYWHERE. It's coming right out. FWIW, I believe Eric (SHOaz) also had to have his Bondurant Cage exstensivly re-worked to make it NASA/SCCA legal on the pumpkin.

For a street driven car, Get the SHOsource 4 point Kit. It has a Cross bar on the main hoop, ties in to the strut towers on the rear, has a proper harness bar and is of course is a weld in. One thing you have to strongly consider is your safety and passengers safety, If you run a 4 point, consider your back seat useless unless your forcing your passengers to wear a helmet, as even a small fender bender can send them flying in to the main hoop and cause some SERIOUS damage.

Another reason why I am a fan of a simple 4 point for the only occasinaly tracked car, is the fact that it does not protrude in to the drivers compartment, making it perfectly safe for Daily Driving/Street driving.

-Sam

 

[zak]

Another reason why I am a fan of a simple 4 point for the only occasinaly tracked car, is the fact that it does not protrude in to the drivers compartment, making it perfectly safe for Daily Driving/Street driving.

-Sam

Sam, please give a read to the thread I linked above.

 

[SHOspazz92]

Sam, please give a read to the thread I linked above.

I did, and the general consensus is that you want to make sure that your head will not come in contact to the main hoop in the event of a rollover. Not only are my seats low, by rollbar is far enough back that if I were to rollover, and my head somehow snaked back towards the rollbar and hit the main hoop, I would have probably died anyways wether the cage was there or not.

That thread is mainly pretraining to actual roll cages, with door bars, halo's, etc (Even tho it started out as a thread about roll bars). I'm talking about a simple 4 point roll bar.

-Sam

 

[Sho Amo]

I see Gary M posted in that thread. I think Bondurant made their back seat passenger wear helmets.

I think this car is going to turn into a two seat type deal.

 

[zak]

Sam, be aware that most race specs require the roll bar to be within 8 inches of your head, otherwise it doesn't give much protection in the event of a rollover.

 

[SHOspazz92]

Sam, be aware that most race specs require the roll bar to be within 8 inches of your head, otherwise it doesn't give much protection in the event of a rollover.

I am aware of that, and mine is right at that limit, with race seats that have a high back.

FWIW, I've been reading through the NASA/SCCA rulebook like crazy, preparing for for another rollbar for the new car. I have a pretty good grasp on how these need to be setup, and what you can and can not get away with.

-Sam

 

[Sho Amo]

Now that I think about it...

If I wreck this car hard enough to really damage it, I think Id rather die, because id be out of sooo much money lol.


(that was a joke)

 

[Sho Amo]

Lets get some Ideas rolling instead of arguing.

Basic 4 Point
http://kurtmetros.com/red90/90cage.jpg

Pat's 10 point
http://panamapat.no-ip.info/SHO/Pic/raceshointerior/Page.html

 

[SHOspazz92]

There is no crossbar on the main hoop. Also, I don't care for how it ties in to floor, and not the strut towers.

Edit, I also can't see the base plate for the hoop. You want to make sure that it is a nice, thick peice of metal for the base plate, otherwise it can go straight through the body, as recently seen with a Mustang at Hallet that rolled over. It's bolt in cage went straight through the floor.

-Sam

 

[Sho Amo]

Heres a pic I took of SinisterSHO's car back at carlisle '10. I like how far your head is away from the main hoop.

 

[SHOspazz92]

FWIW, I don't care for the crossbar on my main hoop, but it does the trick and has never had a issue passing tech. (It's not perfectly straight).

-Sam

 

[Sho Amo]

Was that a custom job that Bob had someone do?

I cant dig up any pics of Mikes car. I remember him having some sort of strut tower brace built into the cage.

 

[SHOspazz92]

Mine also had a strut tower bar made from the roll bar tubing. Mikes had his strut bar (made from the roll bar tubing) tied in to the H-Brace.

IIRC, Bob said it was a custom built unit. It's certainly not a SHOsource unit.

-Sam

 

[firebat45]

Can someone (Kurt?) explain this? Looks like a lot of trouble and compromising went into keeping the rear seats, but why bother, since they're now useless for sitting in anyway. Just aesthetics?

Also, to answer the actual thread, I personally don't think a roll cage and rear passengers should ever mix. Even street driving with a roll cage is a compromise, you have to do a ton of padding and careful design to make the car as safe as stock.

 

[Sho Amo]

Im out of the backseat decision. After reading lots of threads on different forums, I think I might go with a custom 4 point, and if I get serious into racing it will get converted.

I get serious into sports so hopefully I suck at racing, or else Ill get sucked in.


In my last sport I stopped at national #2.

 

[Toolman]

Much of the 'tech' you read about on various internet forums as to why roll cages in street driven cars are bad is simply shadetree mechanics speaking about things they really have no hard data concerning. There simply is no database of head injuries sustained from driving helmetless in a caged car because there are so few recorded accidents.

Every car and every passenger has a different 'head to metal' proximity range, so a short helmetless person in a caged Caprice has a LOT more clearance for his noggin than an NBA player in a VW bug. There are thousands of people driving non-modified cars every day who are in more danger of serious head trauma than a helmetless driver of a caged car, simply because of less clearance between their head and the hard parts of their car. Anyone who has seen a car without an interior can tell you that you do not want your head (helmet or not) hitting anything inside a car. The small plastic covering that comprises most interiors will do nothing to keep you from sustaining major head trauma in the event of an impact.

That said, this is in no way an encouragement to cage your daily driver, simply meant to put things into perspective. IMO, cages belong in race cars, non in dual purpose cars.

 

[SHOtime2511]

I'd go 4pt. bolt in.
Take it out and put the rear seat back in after any events you attend.

 

[SuperchargedSHOguy]

I would not go bolt in cage in any vehicle. There are numerous stories about them breaking in accidents. It makes zero sense to invest in something that is really not premanently attached to the structure of the car and hoping it will do its job.