Let's Talk About Oil!!!!!!!!

[SM105K]

I posted this in another thread, but after some thought I think it would be a good discussion if more people saw this thread.

DISCLAIMER: I HAVE ZERO AFFILIATON WITH LAKE SPEED JR, HIS COMPANIES, OR HIS LIKENESS. I AM NOT PAID, SPONSORED, GET KICK BACKS, OR ANY OF THE SORT.

This is just what I have researched and personally done.

This got quite long winded, but I believe it is worth a good read.

I have been watching a lot of the this guy.......

https://www.youtube.com/@themotoroilgeek

His dad is/was Nascar Driver Lake Speed. His name is Lake Speed Jr. He worked in the engine department and developed oils for Joe Gibbs Racing. He works for Total Seal Piston Rings....so he knows his shit and backs all of his shit with science.

He has a lot of cool information about oil ect, and he has a pretty cool catalog of information.

What really got me was his explanation about fuel saturation in the oil in Boosted/DI motors. If the fuel injectors aren't pulsing correctly or efficiently they essentially adding fuel to the oil. The unburnt or dribbled fuel goes past the rings and straight into the oil. This creates saturation, thermal breakdown, and possible increase in mega knock events. Getting a oil diagnostic can be a huge benefit in detecting exactly something like this. If you are seeing high amounts of saturation, you could be seeing the start of something bigger. Either pump failure, injector failure, inefficient injector spray ect.

I bought one of his kits and had the oil tested in the AMG. It came back okay for 5000 miles. He said things look okay but to start changing my oil every 4000 miles. I don't agree, I am staunch 3000 mile changer regardless of what it is. It seems that the Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro Car Formula isn't the best oil for my application because the viscosity break down and high calcium. Viscosity break down is normal, but not at the rate this oil should have across the board. The high calcium is a detergent that lends a big hand in LSPI and a mega knock event. He actually has a video just about this particular oil. I had changed the oil in the AMG 200 miles ago with M1 0W-40 Euro Car Formula and after looking on the MB forums and seeing what MB says. After that video and seeing the break down on the analysis, I switched over to Liquid Moly 5W-40. Yes I dropped the 200 mile freshly changed oil. I might throw it in the VW Jetta however. It leaks just a much as I replace almost at the same time. When I get to 3000 miles I will change the Liquid Moly and send it off for analysis. However I am super interested in the Castrol Edge 5W-40 Euro Formula as well. I had great results with the Castrol Edge in the SHO.

What Lake suggests in a nutshell:

DO NOT FOLLOW MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDED OIL CHANGES INTERVALS. They have incentives and CAFE requirements by the EPA and FED GOVT to prolong oil changes. Less oil used ect. It is long and winded, but they get kick backs. They are doing half of the oil changes across the board within the honored warranty. Makes you think.......

Max mileage for a oil change should be 5000 miles or less depending on driving conditions and habits.

ALWAYS PREFILL THE NEW OIL FILTER with fresh oil before install. He has a whole video about this. If you don't, it does cause wear during the first start up after the oil change, because there is no oil pressure. It is not a myth, so fill the new damn oil filter. If you have a filter that cannot be filled (I do) then use the no start/ignition cut start to turn over the motor for at least 10 seconds. I did this with the SHO every oil change while filling the new filter.

Every oil change throw an bottle of complete fuel system cleaner in your vehicle esp if it is direct injection. Doesn't matter what brand just as long as it has polyether amine in it. He has seen a correlation in reduced fuel saturation in the oils tested when this is used each oil change. It helps clean the injectors and helps with spray pattern ect. I use the Chevron Complete Fuel System Cleaner, if I remember correctly it was 8 dollars.

If you buy a new car, change the oil after 500 miles. You need to get all of the crap out of that engine before "the first recommended oil change". Manufacturers do not use break in oil anymore. You would be shocked at how much crap they pulled out of his daughters brand new Toyota that had factory 0W-8 in it. He has a whole video on that as well.

A oil analysis (to track trends), oil, a filter, and bottle of injector cleaner is cheap compared to a potential motor failure.

 

[Jordan_R]

I am in the fluid maintenance business. For credibility sake I drive tens of millions of dollars through service departments every year with programs that are against manufacturers recommend maintenance schedules. There is one thing about service intervals that manufacturers don't like to tell you is that it is all about cost of ownership. This is the creation of lifetime fluids and longer intervals so they can say that their vehicles cost less to maintain. Let me dive into this a little bit more.

Lifetime fluid is a term we are all well aware of in our world, but there is an actual definition for what lifetime fluid means. Lifetime fluid means the lifetime of the vehicle or the time designated by the manufacturer that the vehicle is suppose to be on the road. This is defined by one thing and on thing only. Warranty. After warranty period is over any fluid that is designated as a lifetime fluid needs to be changed. (Now we've found that even that is too long for our little PTU's)

This can be pushed into the realm of any fluid in a vehicle. Engine oil? How long do you plan on keeping your vehicle? Do you plan to replace it out of warranty? If yes, then maintain it to OEM spec because that's all you "should" need to do and if anything goes wrong you are covered. If you do, then you need to have a stringent interval usually half of what the OEM recommends.

In essentially every owners manual there is a service interval called "severe duty" which severe duty sounds like it's some special scenario when, in fact, it's actually if you drive in cold climates, if you drive in hot climates, if you drive on gravel roads and so on. Basically every vehicle is a severe duty interval vehicle unless it's 65 degrees with no fluctuation on your indoor race track.

Long story boring nobody will ever regret OVER maintaining a vehicle if you plan to keep the vehicle a long time.

 

[rubydist]

I have spent lots of money on lots of oil analysis over the years and consistently find that Mobil1 is perfectly fine at 10k mile oil change intervals. But I also use top quality fuel which has additives that keep injectors clean. imho (based on my data), it is far more important to buy top quality fuel regularly than it is to change oil more often.

 

[SM105K]

I have spent lots of money on lots of oil analysis over the years and consistently find that Mobil1 is perfectly fine at 10k mile oil change intervals. But I also use top quality fuel which has additives that keep injectors clean. imho (based on my data), it is far more important to buy top quality fuel regularly than it is to change oil more often.

I never said M1 wasn't good. I said it wasn't good in my application in both my SHO and my AMG. The detergent package 100% goes against what is recommended for Turbo Gasoline Direct Injected Engines in regards to LSPI and Mega Knock Events. I will be picking up another AMG here soon, and that motor is 20k to 30k if you need to replace it. So $80 to $100 dollars every 3k miles is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things and extremely cheap insurance.

I run top tier fuel as well, and was still seeing a bit of fuel dilution in 3k oil change intervals with the 3.5 EB. Either way, good insurance in this application is change your oil often with a quality oil and to not follow manufacturers recommended oil change intervals. I wonder how many PTU's could have been saved over the years by not listening to Ford, just by changing the oil............

Oil hasn't changed, incentives for Manufacturers for using less oil has changed. Easiest way to save oil and get the kick backs.........extend oil change intervals.

 

[Devin]

I don't believe in oil "changes" per se. Having an older Ford, I believe in a more or less constant oil "refilling". I do change out the filter every 5-6000 miles though.

 

[SM105K]

I don't believe in oil "changes" per se. Having an older Ford, I believe in a more or less constant oil "refilling". I do change out the filter every 5-6000 miles though.

My 89 5.0 Mustang GT was the same.

Both of my EB's the 3.5 and the 2.0 haven't leaked a drop of oil though and they are both 2013's.

 

[kryptto]

The detergent package 100% goes against what is recommended for Turbo Gasoline Direct Injected Engines

Just picked up a 6 pack of AMSOIL SIGNATURE SERIES 5W-30 - Thanks for the posting.

 

[SHOdded]

for those of you who put your ecoboosts thru the wringer, you can run 10w30 and fight many issues at the same time. there is practically no difference between 5w and 10w unless you live in the tundra. but 5w IS a good catchall where the manufacturer is concerned.

as far as fuel, using a no additive fuel for your ecoboost will actually help provide better injector life/performance ... as long as the fuel is known good. the additives in fuel actually end up gumming up the injectors because they are not designed for the high pressures of gdi.

 

[SHOmont]

Amsoil, nobody beats them….period.

 

[SM105K]

Just picked up a 6 pack of AMSOIL SIGNATURE SERIES 5W-30 - Thanks for the posting.

I have seen a couple of oil analysis from used Amsoil SS 5W-30 posted online from Blackstone. Most of them have had a 1200+ calcium count. I personally do not know the where the threshold is when Calcium becomes the elephant in the combustion chamber. It would be awesome if you would do a oil analysis when you switch over to the SS. To see the modern detergent package, and the fuel dilution would be a big benefit for you and for us. Here are some videos from other people talking about LSPI and Detergents that lend themselves to LSPI.

 

[SHOmont]

Amsoil knows their stuff, that’s why they’re the best. They not only do their own tests, they have 3rd party perform testing as well…..no one compares. (Not my opinion)

 

[kryptto]

if you would do a oil analysis when you switch over to the SS. To see the modern detergent package, and the fuel dilution would be a big benefit for you and for us. Here are some videos from other people talking about LSPI and Detergents that lend themselves to LSPI.

Already have the black plastic container with return label. Putting it in, in a couple of weeks then will run it up to 6 months without miles. I drive so infrequently - I have heard that the in oil additives degrade if not used for prolonged periods. It's time and miles from what I understand.

I am definitely doing a Valvoline check and Amsoil check for sure. The Valvoline is SN+ rated however I want to see the difference for sure.

 

[SM105K]

Amsoil knows their stuff, that’s why they’re the best. They not only do their own tests, they have 3rd party perform testing as well…..no one compares. (Not my opinion)

It is your opinion. Lots of other oils compare. If they were the king, everyone would use it including the OEMs, Nascar, FI, ect. Too blindly make blanket statements is unproductive.

I don't have a motor oil in the race. I am trying to find the best for my application.

 

[SHOmont]

Amsoil is a small company that were the 1st to introduce synthetic motor oils in 1972…….. not everyone knows about them, and their product is not always carried at Wally World or your local parts store, is why everyone is not using it. It used to be only independent distributors could sell Amsoil, but since the internet they sell direct to consumers from their website. Poke around their published tests, they are far superior, not my opinion, it’s in the test.

 

[kryptto]

It is your opinion. Lots of other oils compare. If they were the king, everyone would use it including the OEMs, Nascar, FI, ect. Too blindly make blanket statements is unproductive.

I don't have a motor oil in the race. I am trying to find the best for my application.

GH IC, CSF new radiator, new fans, new spare parts just in case - foam replacements etc, box full of parts Amsoil their MP Metal protector, and Amsoil Coolant.

Ready to go next 2 weeks.

 

[Devin]

How'd this become an amsoil thread? I swear, it is like a cult. Probably have some guys in coveralls and name tags come up to my door to ask if I believe in the kingdom of oil.

Arguing about oil brands is pointless. Proper maintenance, on time, is what matters.

 

[SHOdded]

oils keep evolving with each new spec. the question is how much above the cut is signature. valvoline now claims to prevent metal erosion at all!!! ok ...

anyhoo, in our 2010 fusion sport, the best combination i have found is redline (classic) 5w30 + purolator boss. substituting one or the other yields unsatisfactory results. thanks to a hole in the exhaust i can listen to the results, and redline + PB handsdown has the best sound.

quaker state 5w30 ultimate comes fairly close but not close enough. probably not thick enough to recommend for an ecoboost.

 

[SHOmont]

Not a cult, they just make a superior product…..the analogy would be the Germans make the best diesel engines.

 

[SM105K]

Amsoil is a small company that were the 1st to introduce synthetic motor oils in 1972…….. not everyone knows about them, and their product is not always carried at Wally World or your local parts store, is why everyone is not using it. It used to be only independent distributors could sell Amsoil, but since the internet they sell direct to consumers from their website. Poke around their published tests, they are far superior, not my opinion, it’s in the test.

I know all about Amsoil and their history and have nothing against them. However, like my statement said. If they were the best after 52 years of being a industry leader, they would be in everything. Correct, they post the tests on their website. Correct they say all the right things on their website.

However, I cannot find a v i r g i n oil analysis on their website breaking down each section or the detergent package for the specified oil. Are they keeping it close the vest? Maybe, but I have a problem with that. I have posted a couple V i r g i n Oil Analysis on Amsoil 5w/30 SS and it is loaded with Calcium. Pretty interesting to see the detergent package change over the year esp with Calcium. Even at 1300 to 1500 I personally still believe that is high for a TGDI engine (but that is my opinion).

Here is a spread sheet from Bill the Oil Guy saying Amsoil while still good is not the best.

Oil Comparison Version 2b

docs.google.com

VOA Amsoil 5w/20 from 2016.....High Calcium


Here is their Eurocar Formula.......Low Calcuim? Why? Europe has TDGI engines too.....



Project Farm had a ****** oil analysis......... High Calcium 2019.


It wasn't until recent that Amsoil dramatically lowered their calcium levels via 2022. What took them so long? Did they know something back in 2016 with the Euro Car Formula?



I don't know what the threshold is for Calicum when it come to LSPI. I listen to what people have said and a consensus is 1500 ppm.


Like I said making blanket statements and saying they are best is not productive.

 

[SM105K]

How'd this become an amsoil thread? I swear, it is like a cult. Probably have some guys in coveralls and name tags come up to my door to ask if I believe in the kingdom of oil.

Arguing about oil brands is pointless. Proper maintenance, on time, is what matters.

Exactly, I don't subscribe to one brand. I am really particular now, that I am venturing into motors that cost 20k to 30k to replace. So I want to know exactly what is in my oil, what is happening to my oil while in the motor, and what is the best for my application.