Lemons Texas...

[1badsho]

+1

Sergio has lots of experience, plus he and his crew learned how to get the job done.

Sounds like they need me coming up to race my old car ! ..... but I wouldnt do it because of the reasons stated here

IT really does sound like the driver just didnt know how to drive this race .... any car can have mechanical issues .... but those cars pushed to the extreme by their drivers constantly .... somethen is bound to break

 

[jonheese]

Not mocha with black .... but a 91 + black in color with beige leather

Woops... Yeah, I misread your original post, sorry.

384 Black '91s w/Mocha (beige) leather interiors made
156 Black '91s w/Mocha (beige) 50/50 interiors made

No telling exactly how many Pluses, although I'd imagine it's less than 50% of the non-Plus numbers, so estimate fewer than 192 Black Pluses w/Mocha leather, and fewer than 78 Black Pluses w/Mocha 50/50 interiors. Still not very common, but definitely a lot more possible.

 

[K-Dawg]

Sounds like they need me coming up to race my old car ! ..... but I wouldnt do it because of the reasons stated here

IT really does sound like the driver just didnt know how to drive this race .... any car can have mechanical issues .... but those cars pushed to the extreme by their drivers constantly .... somethen is bound to break

On that same note, as you're well aware, Sergio and his team know SHOs better than just about anybody, and therefore know a SHOs strengths and how to exploit those, and its weaknesses and how to fix or live those.

 

[Toolman]

Side note, but I purchased a black 91+ with mocha leather, y-pipe and a MAF I think. Car had miles (over 200k) but ran great, and looked great.

 

[gas it]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnpTd_4Ci6M

Here's a crapy video of the 97 going by. They had a misfire problem right before the 7pm safety break. They got it fixed a little after 8pm. You can tell cause the exhaust sound was right. And it was fast on the banking. I stayed til 10pm and they were still running. But later they had a RF wheel bearing fail.

Chumpcar's Facebook page has all the race info and hourly updates.

BTW, every LeMons team I talked to that was racing there said Chumpcar is better than LeMons. No BS penalty laps, or black flags for 2 wheels off, or a spin.

I'll post more later. It's time to fix cars......

 

[gas it]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lKMD8_HxCk

Here's another one. Missed the car as it went by.... but you can hear it.

I'm not quite sure why they can't finish good with the car. The drivers are dirt track guys I think. I'm also not sure if they are the same guys driving each race or not. But RWD and FWD require different lines thru the corners. Then there's the problem with beating on the car for 30 minutes, opposed to 14 hours. They had brake problems at ECR on Sunday, no doubt from abusing the brakes on Saturday. Lots of cars had brake problems there. So the 97 wasn't the only ones tearing up their brakes.

 

[Wildstar]

I do not understand why people wont buy adequate brake pads. They pay for themselves in the long run...

 

[jonheese]

I do not understand why people wont buy adequate brake pads. They pay for themselves in the long run...

Are you kidding? You realize that we're not talking about cheap college kids trying to get from A to B on beer money, right?

I'd be VERY surprised if the 97 car (as well as most of the other cars in the ChumpCar race) didn't have very competent brake pads and rotors, at the "race" level; well above anything geared for the street. It sounds like the issue was a track design that's brutal on brakes, not lack of basic preparation on the part of the drivers.

 

[blue92]

Are you kidding? You realize that we're not talking about cheap college kids trying to get from A to B on beer money, right?

Question, would you buy more expensive brake pads for your daily driver if you knew those more expensive pads would last you 3 times longer and brake 3 times as good as the the stock pads? I run Porterfield pads on my daily for this very reason.

Porterfield Brakes are ones that recommend that RRRR use the adequate brake pads in the 1st place and as it turned out they were cheaper than the Porterfields.

I'd be VERY surprised if the 97 car (as well as most of the other cars in the ChumpCar race) didn't have very competent brake pads and rotors, at the "race" level; well above anything geared for the street. It sounds like the issue was a track design that's brutal on brakes, not lack of basic preparation on the part of the drivers.

Are you a Lemons/ChumpCar racer?

The reason Kerby made his statement is because they saw what pads the 97 are running and they aren't running the adequate brake pads.

 

[jonheese]

Wildstar == Kerby Haltom?

If so, I retract my comment. I figured it was some newb making assumptions.

No, I'm not a LeMons/Chump racer, but I do know that brakes are considered safety items (at least in LeMons; I ASSuME the same for Chump), so why would anyone skimp? I suppose idiocy know no bounds?

I was basing my assumption that it wasn't necessarily a case of substandard brakes on this comment from Sergio:

Lots of cars had brake problems there. So the 97 wasn't the only ones tearing up their brakes.

Question, would you buy more expensive brake pads for your daily driver if you knew those more expensive pads would last you 3 times longer and brake 3 times as good as the the stock pads? I run Porterfield pads on my daily for this very reason.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. I run Porterfield R4S pads on my DD too.

 

[gas it]

Ziptie #37 wore out their used Hawk pads on Saturday. They got new rotors and Duralast pads for Sunday. One hour into Sunday's race guess what? They almost hit the wall coming onto the front straight because the pads were gone. So they dug in my stuff and found some R4S pads that I used to drive up to the track, about half worn. Those made it to the finish. Now they owe me some pads.

I have been running 10" brakes til the last race. Everyone said this track will eat your brakes. So I took the 96 brakes front and rear off my street SHO and put them on the race car. The only brake problem we had was with warped rotors, my 96 rotors were used and didn't feel warped til they got a few hard stops on them. So new O'Rielly's rotors fixed that.

 

[Wildstar]

Yep, Wildstar is me, the Kerbster. I've just seen the problems with brake pads at these races(we did crappy pads for our 1st race) and have found that good race pads are the best way to go. We've been using Porterfield R4 pads for 4 races now. We just put on a new set for the last race. 3 races out of a set of pads! Sergio ran some Raybestos pads that Porterfield recommended, and they had great brakes and little wear, as well. On a track that is notorious for eating pads.

As for why folks wont run good pads. Initial cost, I guess. We come out with about the same cost, over multiple races, and piece of mind when I step on the pedal is priceless...

 

[Shoaz]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. I run Porterfield R4's on my DD too.

R4 or R4S? My experience with the R4 pads was that they were death on cold rotors, i.e., not good for street use. When I switched to a track-only car (i.e., no more driving it to and from the track with R4 pads) my rotor wear went way down.

 

[jonheese]

R4 or R4S? My experience with the R4 pads was that they were death on cold rotors, i.e., not good for street use. When I switched to a track-only car (i.e., no more driving it to and from the track with R4 pads) my rotor wear went way down.

Ah yes, I never remember which is which, but you are correct, they're the R4S pad. Thanks.

 

[Wildstar]

I just put a set of R4Ss on the SHO last weekend. I love those things.

 

[frosho]

R4 or R4S? My experience with the R4 pads was that they were death on cold rotors, i.e., not good for street use. When I switched to a track-only car (i.e., no more driving it to and from the track with R4 pads) my rotor wear went way down.

How long does it take to warm up the rotors with those R4 pads? Last year I used Duracrap pads at NHMS and had to head to the pits early due to overheating brakes almost every session, which sucked. That's why I picked up those Porterfields from you.

 

[gas it]

At our race in Feb. we used PFCM pads, for about 4 hours when they went metal on metal. We put some used who knows what they were pads on to make it 3 or 4 hours to the end of Sat. New pads on grooved rotors will not last long, we knew that, plus we didn't have any new rotors yet.

The only pads we could find were Duralast. I figured we would have to change them sometime towards the end on Sunday. But we got real luckly with an hour long full course caution and another long local caution on the back straight. Plus it rained. The Duralast made it, just one of the pads was starting to go metal on metal.

That's the last time we use anything other than race pads.

 

[Wildstar]

It only takes a couple of more than a snails pace laps to warm up the R4s. I've never had a problem at the beginning of a LeMons race day of having brakes when it was time to use them.

 

[Shoaz]

How long does it take to warm up the rotors with those R4 pads? Last year I used Duracrap pads at NHMS and had to head to the pits early due to overheating brakes almost every session, which sucked. That's why I picked up those Porterfields from you.

It's a non-problem at most tracks, as you're on the brakes enough that they come up to temp very quickly (as mentioned, a warmup lap or two pretty much does it). It's not much to worry about at the track.

They're problematic if they're repeatedly applied cold, like for typical street driving. The good part of that is that if you've gotten imprinting (aka warped rotors) they'll perform essentially a machining job just on the way home from the track and that'll be all fixed by the time you get home.

If you're having overheating problems I'll suggest two things: 1) Do what you can to improve air flow over the brakes. On a GenII just removing the fog lamps helps. The dryer vent and sewer elbow ducts are a possible next step if necessary. 2) Lighten up on the brakes. The difference in lap times between threshold braking every corner and braking "light and long" is miniscule. Try braking earlier and lighter. Often that naturally lets you set the car up for corner entry earlier and you wind up carrying more speed into the corner. So, basically, ventilation and technique. It's different for everybody so that's just IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc.

That being said, a SHO is a reasonably fast car and a very heavy car for track use, so overheating brakes is not at all rare and a little bit expected. The better braking torque with the R4 pads should help, as you'll likely be braking for less time or lighter.

 

[drivinhard]

Full course CMP is the hardest braking track I've been on. lemons uses half of the track, but it's just as hard. just a bunch of starting and stopping.

in any event, we ran carbotech XP8 fronts on 96 on our lemons car (I dunno how the other guys drove them, but I hammered them for 2.5 hrs) and they have about 60% pad still remaining, stunning for 14 hrs of comp use. our car was very heavy to.

we used R4S in the rears and they still look new. that's expected though, since the rear brakes on a SHO are only there to add unsprung weight.