Help interpreting Sct log

[tech10002]

Been playing with logging my Livernois v15 thanks to StealBlueSho. I captured a log where I got the shudder on the 2-3 shift at around 6100 RPM and right above 60 MPH, and I think I'm reading this right. The commanded fuel pressure is around 16.5 MPA, or 2400 PSI, and the HPFP is actually delivering 5.7 MPA, or 830 PSI at that point. You can see RPM in green and the actual fuel pressure in the highlighted magenta. If you play the log back around 568 seconds, you can actually see the virtual tach flutter right as the fuel pressure is at its lowest.

Also, when the fuel pressure is hovering around 800, the knock retard is spiking around 4.5 or so and doesn't back down to below 2 until the fuel pressure is above 1500 PSI or so. My lambda is running around .74 at the low point of fuel pressure which seems very rich to me. Is having this much knock retard going to cause problems? The highest knock in my 10 minute or so log was 7.4. I have no idea what this should be, though. I'm pretty new to everything about how these Ecoboosts work.

This is just a screenshot from Paint, so quality is not the best. There might be a better way to display this, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Thanks for any insight you guys that know what you're talking about can provide.

 

[mattr66]

I would be more worried about hanging an injector open with pressure dipping that low.

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[tech10002]

I would be more worried about hanging an injector open with pressure dipping that low.

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At 5900 RPM, my fuel pressure is about 1200. Would that be a safe point to ask for my 2-3 shift point to be set at? It doesn’t start getting below 1000 till you pass 6000 RPM.

 

[mattr66]

At 5900 RPM, my fuel pressure is about 1200. Would that be a safe point to ask for my 2-3 shift point to be set at? It doesn’t start getting below 1000 till you pass 6000 RPM.

I didn't tune it i would either lower the load or lean it out some to prevent the fp drop

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[tech10002]

I didn't tune it i would either lower the load or lean it out some to prevent the fp drop

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Yeah. I know you didn’t tune it. It’s an LMS tune. Unfortunately, they are unwilling to lean their tunes out any, so my only option is to ask for the shift point to be moved down a couple hundred RPM to a point where the fuel pressure is still reasonable. From the tons of people experiencing similar shuddering issues on v11 and up LMS tunes, it seems they are more than a bit conservative with air/fuel, and I suspect the issues would go away if they weren’t commanding such a rich mixture. LMS thinks other tuners are running too lean, but I have read you are running about a .82 lambda, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. I am far from an expert though.

Would love to try your auto octane tune myself. On more than one occasion, I’ve had to hunt for 93 while on the road. Would be nice to not have to worry about it if I put some 91 or 92 in while traveling.

 

[StealBlueSho]

Yup, that’s exactly what I saw in my V11 tune before the HPFP.

That fuel pressure is too low and it doesn’t recover at all. I would revert back as that is completely unsafe.


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[MHW100]

Yup, that’s exactly what I saw in my V11 tune before the HPFP.

That fuel pressure is too low and it doesn’t recover at all. I would revert back as that is completely unsafe.


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What do you mean "unsafe" and do you mean revert to stock?

 

[StealBlueSho]

What do you mean "unsafe" and do you mean revert to stock?

I mean, when your fuel pressure drops below 1500psi the combustion pressure inside the cylinder can exceed what the injectors are pushing. LMS themselves wrote a hole post about it.

At 800psi in his log, the injectors are not firing to keep from getting stuck or damaged. Again, this is from LMS...

I bet if you look at his throttle position is closing to protect the engine from having problems.

That fuel pressure is UNSAFE plus he is getting high knock retard, which means it’s really not safe.

I say he loads the stock calibration back with the 2bar map sensor as opposed to running that tune.

It’s SIMPLY NOT SAFE..


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[MHW100]

I mean, when your fuel pressure drops below 1500psi the combustion pressure inside the cylinder can exceed what the injectors are pushing. LMS themselves wrote a hole post about it.

At 800psi in his log, the injectors are not firing to keep from getting stuck or damaged. Again, this is from LMS...

I bet if you look at his throttle position is closing to protect the engine from having problems.

That fuel pressure is UNSAFE plus he is getting high knock retard, which means it’s really not safe.

I say he loads the stock calibration back with the 2bar map sensor as opposed to running that tune.

It’s SIMPLY NOT SAFE..


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Good gosh . This is a serious condemnation of the v11 LMS tune . Mine feels like it is working fine without a pump . I'm going to contact them.

 

[SHOdded]

And yet again goes to show the value of datalogging and getting to know your car a bit more ... intimately. Nothing fancy, just keep your eye on a few things, especially if you start experiencing issues.

 

[StealBlueSho]

Good gosh . This is a serious condemnation of the v11 LMS tune . Mine feels like it is working fine without a pump . I'm going to contact them.

LMS has commented several times concerning the V11 tune with the stuttering issues. They will say “Those with the issue can remedy it with the Firestorm HPFP.”

And they will also say “A lot of cars do not have this problem.” Which means they at the time were not willing to create a different tune to dial back the power and/or make adjustments to the current V11 tune to fix the fueling issues. Or better yet, offer the V10 or V9 to those customers! But they won’t, they have the tune files, they just flat won’t do it. “There are various improvements in V11 so we no longer supply the older revisions..”

I personally had the same problem as the OP. However, I had already planned to pickup the HPFP instead of the Alky Control methanol setup so I didn’t make a fuss about it.

There are numerous posts on this form and EBPF where I have told LMS and various customer there stuttering issue is due to fueling and it’s in the tune. I have datalogged extensively the LMS V11 tune on the stock pump, it’s not safe.

I have a hard time with LMS based on their previous assertions that ANYTHING under 2000psi is not optimal and can cause problems standardizing on a tune that literally contradicts EVERYTHING they say is safe.

Then their solution is buy a $1,600 part. When the correct answer is they should re-evaluate the V11 tune based on lots of feedback and DATA showing it’s not safe.

But I digress.... this nothing I haven’t been saying since April of 2018...


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[MHW100]

Perhaps LMS could prepare a rebuttal if one exists . Not to throw fuel on the fire but this is a reputation killer if some scientific evidence exists that renders their tune to be dangerous.

 

[StealBlueSho]

Perhaps LMS could prepare a rebuttal if one exists . Not to throw fuel on the fire but this is a reputation killer if some scientific evidence exists that renders their tune to be dangerous.

So we have two guys with datalogs... a far cry from anything useable. Besides, they have already claimed

A: These cars run out of fuel tuned when temps get below 60F

B: They haven’t seen this issue personally in house.

Two cars with hard data out of hundreds they have tuned isn’t damning, it can easily be written off as environmental or car specific.


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[Raging Bull]

Well LMS needs to look at this closer than ever because if they can’t see that if the tune is unsafe and u need a 1300 $$ fuel pump to fix the issue and or u can get a sct - and a tune from the other guys that a lot of people seem to be turning too for 6-700$$ and it’s safer. No brains needed here. I myself have no issues but now really parinoid May have some come spring. Don’t know ! To be honest I don’t want to have to buy either items to be happy, already spent enough I think. And I wish it was just 2 cents and thats mine.

 

[ridered74]

So we have two guys with datalogs... a far cry from anything useable. Besides, they have already claimed

A: These cars run out of fuel tuned when temps get below 60F

B: They haven’t seen this issue personally in house.

Two cars with hard data out of hundreds they have tuned isn’t damning, it can easily be written off as environmental or car specific.


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I have a datalog from april, but the forum won't let me upload it. I'd be happy to email it to whoever would like to look at it tho.

 

[mattr66]

I have a datalog from april, but the forum won't let me upload it. I'd be happy to email it to whoever would like to look at it tho.

What is the load parameter where fuel pressure starts to decline?

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[StealBlueSho]

I have a datalog from april, but the forum won't let me upload it. I'd be happy to email it to whoever would like to look at it tho.

Put it in a zip file.. should be good to upload then.


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[ridered74]

What is the load parameter where fuel pressure starts to decline?

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I lost my "knowledgeable tuner to idiot customer" translator app, so I have no idea what you are asking. I can send you the file if you pm me an email address. The "rear fuel pressure" goes from teens down to as low as 7.82 right around where it loses power at 46 mph.

 

[ridered74]

Put it in a zip file.. should be good to upload then.


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Downloading winzip now.

 

[StealBlueSho]

I lost my "knowledgeable tuner to idiot customer" translator app, so I have no idea what you are asking. I can send you the file if you pm me an email address. The "rear fuel pressure" goes from teens down to as low as 7.82 right around where it loses power at 46 mph.

Pm sent


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