shojuan
New Member
Stop eating. Why do you think Mark N. runs such low times in SR71? I'm sure you've got at least 30 lbs of beer gut you can get rid of.
Rick
Rick
Weight loss....
- Thread starter adidasho
- Start date
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X
X-15 SHO
Guest
Can you explain then why the T/A Ram Air is faster then the T/A non ram air? Don't even tell me that it's right when he hits 100mph, it's like nitrious, because if so your wrong. I also want to know if you say anything about the 1/4 and the reason, then also why is it quicker in the 1/8 also? To me it seems, not being mean, but that you have'nt had your study and your going by what you heard and have'nt expierienced. Not saying to offend you but that's my .02 wink
<small>[ January 10, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: X-15 SHO ]</small>
Try to find one person here to agree with you...good luck.The modern ram air designs were brought to the market not by car,buy by motorcycles in the mid 90`s.The 1st year is was introduced by Suzuki was in 1996,on the GSX-R750.Dyno testing on that bike,and the Kawasaki ZX-9 showed that thre was no "ram" effect until speeds of over 100mph,the same is commont knowledge of the automobile world.You`re argument is like trying to argue that the sky is orange.This is common knowledge here.Once again,the higher traps are easily explained.The raim air cars built by the manufacturers are completely seal units(which is neccessary for the ram effect).Because of this,the incoming air is completely being entered away from the engine compartment.With the lower intake temperatures,the engine will suffer from less heat stroke,allowing it to make more power.
You can`t argue with science,and you say i didn`t study.Check and mate.
You can`t argue with science,and you say i didn`t study.Check and mate.
X
X-15 SHO
Guest
LOL, dyno testing will not show effect because the car is not moving, OMG, the reason for gains at 100+ is because the intake is sucking harder and enough to suck the cold air in from outside unlike the non Ram Air. Like I said you've heard like many on the forum and never had first hand experience from what I'm assuming and by any means I mean NO OFFENSE JT and I respect your opinions and if I'm wrong about the ram air on the SHO, I'll gladly accept it and back off, but however I still don't understand the reasons for the T/A. wink
Oh Lord,are you just not going to understand this?On the dyno,the winds speeds were simulated,how else would it show ANY gains?I assumed you understood this,i guess not.A normal air box set up will draw the fresh air from the inner fender or inside the engine bay.Both are drawing air somewhat heated by the close proximity of the engine itself.A ram air system draws it air from scoops in the hood(an a typical car equipped with such a system).Since rai mair systems are completely sealed,the air is 100% fresh,away from any engine heat.This is the reason the ram air t/a is quicker than the standard t/a,the engine is running off of colder air,allowing it to be more productive.
Now,to explain the science of it.A ram air system is a completely seal system which is pressurized when the incoming air reaches a certain velocity.In a way,you can think of it as a supercharger.A supercharger with 1psi of boost will show no effect,while 20psi of boost will show large gains.The ram air system won`t show any improvemant of performance under 100mph because there isn`t enough speed to "push" the air into the intake fast enough for any performance.The low mph in a 1/8th mile race isn`t enough to cause a ram effect,and on your car specifically,it won`t ever cause that effect.Your design may gain some power by adding more cold air to the bay,but it`s not ramming the air.
Now,to explain the science of it.A ram air system is a completely seal system which is pressurized when the incoming air reaches a certain velocity.In a way,you can think of it as a supercharger.A supercharger with 1psi of boost will show no effect,while 20psi of boost will show large gains.The ram air system won`t show any improvemant of performance under 100mph because there isn`t enough speed to "push" the air into the intake fast enough for any performance.The low mph in a 1/8th mile race isn`t enough to cause a ram effect,and on your car specifically,it won`t ever cause that effect.Your design may gain some power by adding more cold air to the bay,but it`s not ramming the air.
X
X-15 SHO
Guest
Okay, like I said in the begining. My set up is just like the ram air T/A and yes it is sealed and the only air given is from outside in front of the bumper. For the other like I said I have two smaller higher velocity routing to cause more effect then the ram air on a trans with the big openings. If you stick your hand outside the car when going 40 or so you'll feel a force on your hand and therefor the intake is sucking at the same time the air is flowing in and for the higher velocity it's basically ramming it in there. Now I've had a cold air intake on my car and gave it up and went with the set up I have now due to lack of help as much as my set up has. How did you tell there was a difference also on the T/A R.A. and Non R.A. T/A? Do you have both or did you get two to meet up and dyno the same day and time? Anyways if you did that's a very unaccurate reading due to different cars. Kinda like two different stock SHO's, one can have better numbers then the other. So there's no evidential proof accept by the same driver at the same track and time and him drive both cars to see. I've seen this and the T/A R. A. comes out faster. wink
<small>[ January 10, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: X-15 SHO ]</small>
<small>[ January 10, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: X-15 SHO ]</small>
This has GOT to be a joke.I give up,i disagree with every last point you`ve make,but i can`t believe you`re serious.You`re talking in circles about points i`ve made 2 times,either your messing with me,or you just don`t understand.
TimboSHO
Intermediate
Doesn't the bootleg cold air induction just help the engine run cooler? As Jthomas says, the ram air affect doesn't take affect until high speeds. It's like running with a trash bag. You have to have quite a bit of wind to fill it up with air. The ram air system is on a much bigger scale though. True, less curves in the whole air intake and stuff will help the air move a little better, but minimal gains that are not necissarily noticable will be had. Just my 1.5 cents (i'm broke, what can i say?).
X
X-15 SHO
Guest
What are you talking about SHOmama, less curves? Well the curves as I see add more velocity as the long runners on our intakes do and as the short runners are'nt and are just meant to have greater air mass not velocity. On the T/A ram air it has a short ram air travelance. So in the runners or our SHO's anyone can tell you the long runners are meant for higher velocity to give low end torque. So put it this way JT and mama, a cold air is like leaving the secondaries open at all times and the ram air is like my set up with higher velocity and seeing more gains as if your to leave the secondaries as is and up and close on there own. This fact proves the point mine is a ram air and rams the air in at great velocity and it does'nt take much wind to fill up a trash bag, 10mph at the most. Are air boxes are not that big as a trash bag so in return rams the air better.
OK, now lets get to this here and Mark N. no offense or saying you did anything wrong, your a knowledgable man. But however in this situation look at his old SR71 with the big dryer looking hose that's like 4" - 5" going to his intake, okay. So his intake is of greater mass and less velocity as the short runners on are intake and mine are comparable to the long runners with curves and higher velocity which rams the air in which in return gives better results. So lets make it clear, you get more power low end with secondaries closed and you lose power by having them opened for the low end. True or False? How else can I explain. wink
Oh yeah, I never heard of anyone with the set up I have so I'm sure it's new to you and no one has heard of any gains on this. Mine is meant for greater velocity and works better then the 4"-5" routings. thumbs_u
<small>[ January 10, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: X-15 SHO ]</small>
OK, now lets get to this here and Mark N. no offense or saying you did anything wrong, your a knowledgable man. But however in this situation look at his old SR71 with the big dryer looking hose that's like 4" - 5" going to his intake, okay. So his intake is of greater mass and less velocity as the short runners on are intake and mine are comparable to the long runners with curves and higher velocity which rams the air in which in return gives better results. So lets make it clear, you get more power low end with secondaries closed and you lose power by having them opened for the low end. True or False? How else can I explain. wink
Oh yeah, I never heard of anyone with the set up I have so I'm sure it's new to you and no one has heard of any gains on this. Mine is meant for greater velocity and works better then the 4"-5" routings. thumbs_u
<small>[ January 10, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: X-15 SHO ]</small>
Ok,i got you cornered now.Your thinking is completely wrong,you can`t compare a ram air set up to an intake manifold.The length of the runners work in the same effect as velocity stacks,in the way that they help set the powerband in the rpm range.The lenght of tubing on a ram air system has nothing to do with how it works.You can NOT make a home make ram air system from hardware store tubing,it can`t be done.It doesn`t matter what size or lenght tubing,what it does is just gently push colder outside air towards the filter.What you`ve done is run 2 tubes from the front of the car to the air box.No matter how fast you go,it will not cause the air to "ram" into the intake.Ram Air needs to be specific size tubing,with specific radius angles,and specific size reducers.You do not,can not,will not have a ram air system on your SHO.
Now,bringing up Mark Nunnally was a mistake because he is a friend of mine,and i know his old SR71.You were WAY off with your findings there.What that car has was a cone filter just laying at the end of the MAF in the engine compartment.The inner fender opening for the old air box was cut open to the size of your head.The tubing,(drier tubing)was cut into the front spoiler just to catch more outside air and place it in the filter area.
Now,bringing up Mark Nunnally was a mistake because he is a friend of mine,and i know his old SR71.You were WAY off with your findings there.What that car has was a cone filter just laying at the end of the MAF in the engine compartment.The inner fender opening for the old air box was cut open to the size of your head.The tubing,(drier tubing)was cut into the front spoiler just to catch more outside air and place it in the filter area.
X
X-15 SHO
Guest
Okay so what your saying is the T/A ram air isn't a ram air? It's basically the same. The air is being flowed towards the air filter on the T/A intake as mine is. Have you ever seen the set up on the T/A ram air? Well lets say all that air that's being transfered into the intake isn't being rammed with such high speeds and I guess your telling me it's floating itself in there? wink
TVSHO
New Member
The ram air t/a isn`t made of drier tubing from Home Depot.The size of the scoops,the radiuses of the tubing was specifically picked to design the system.Every inch of it is critical in making it effective.The theory is basically the same,in that air is drawn towards the intake,but the end result is different because the mechanics are different.I`m a moldmaker/CNC programmer by trade,diameters,radiuses,angles,and mathmatical mechanics is my life.
In your line of thinking,the linked picture of the SHO with the scoop has ram air.In fact,it should be a better design than yours because the scoop is grabbing the air better than just a tube,it`s specifically designed for grabbing airflow,and once the air is scooped,it`s immediately pushed into the intake area.However,that would be wrong,it`s not a ram air system,it simply helps draw colder outside air into the general area of the air filter.How do i know this?Because i personally built it,i know how it works.I`ve been doing this long before you even thought of going to the hardware store.
In your line of thinking,the linked picture of the SHO with the scoop has ram air.In fact,it should be a better design than yours because the scoop is grabbing the air better than just a tube,it`s specifically designed for grabbing airflow,and once the air is scooped,it`s immediately pushed into the intake area.However,that would be wrong,it`s not a ram air system,it simply helps draw colder outside air into the general area of the air filter.How do i know this?Because i personally built it,i know how it works.I`ve been doing this long before you even thought of going to the hardware store.
X
X-15 SHO
Guest
OMG...delete the post asap JT...lol. We both probaly look stupid after all of this. I even had a feeling there was really no ram air or well what we thought was ram air and cold air where the same. Guess I know now, but how ever it helps out a lot with the weight reduction. BTW my car looks exactly like Marks old one, just that I have limo tint all around so no one can see the missing interior. thumbs_u
X
X-15 SHO
Guest
WOW, I just like the pic of that set up...sweet. Oh yeah, BTW I never went to the hardware store. My set up is meant like that to and as you having a gen.1 as mine, my air is coming in on the two slots beside the fog light on the driver side. I have it at a angle as the air will go in as the air is pushing to the side from the aerodynamics. Again, nice set up and what all did you have to do and spend to have it done?
Finally,my head hurts from banging it against the wall.
The scoop is from a 1976 Fiat X/19.It cost me $4 on e bay,and i installed it myself.It looks much better in person,the pic is at a funny angle,and the screws are stainless steel.
The scoop is from a 1976 Fiat X/19.It cost me $4 on e bay,and i installed it myself.It looks much better in person,the pic is at a funny angle,and the screws are stainless steel.
TVSHO
New Member
No, just one of you. JT backed up his information with facts, science, and application which was substantiated by the article I supplied. To summarize from the article: Ram air is a myth!
Tom
'94 ATX
NiNeTy Fo SHO
No-mo-SHO Man
I would like to give a thumbs up to Tom.. thumbs_u thumbs_u
I just finished a fluid mechanics class last semester of college (4 weeks ago) and pretty much everything in that article rings true.
Just my thoughts....
beer
X
X-15 SHO
Guest
TVSHO,I know what I was talking about. If you read you would see. I was also saying that I thought the same thing as the link you sent and that the so call ram air is better though by being out futher to only recieve cold air and not hot engine air if it was closer. I think I know a little more and if you can get a car to drop over .6 in the 1/8 with no money mods and just smarts then will talk about racing and mods. As you can see I already dropped .6 of a second and am capable of more once I get my clutch in since it went out the same time I was making 9.4's while it was slipping. Tell me I don't know about nothing. If you can accomplish that then I'll listen to your comments you have to say about racing. I know I'm capable of hitting 14.5's in the 1/4 with just those two mods listed. Let me know what you think and also about others with all there mods and still can't accomplish that.
JT, what did you use to cut through the fender and how is the set up in the inside? Is there any pics in the inside of the compartment?
JT, what did you use to cut through the fender and how is the set up in the inside? Is there any pics in the inside of the compartment?
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