Very Interesting Engine Issue

[Spcymonkey]

Okay, so here are the details of the car and the issue.

95 MTX 3.0 with 67k miles on it.

The car recently sat for about 2 years before my purchase of it, which may or may not be important. The gas in the tank is extremely old, but between the 1st and 2nd time this issue happened, I did manage to put a full tank of gas in the car.

Car recently had all the brakes replace. Metal brake lines, soft brake lines, calipers, rotors, brake pads, 4 brand new tires.

I was driving the car yesterday, and everything was perfect. All of a sudden, the check engine light comes on, and the car starts driving really rough. The car feels like it's misfiring, as when I give it a bit of gas, it jerks back and forward very violently, but it still goes. I pull over in a parking lot, and I let the car sit at idle. The car sounds like it's sputtering, but it doesn't stall, it just keeps sputtering around the idle speed.

I turn the car off, and wait about 2-3 minutes. I try to turn the car back on, and it won't start. It kicks over, very violently, but won't start. This goes on for another 2-3 attemps to start it. Finally, after waiting 10 minutes, I start it, and it starts. Now, the car idle speed is at about 1900 RPM!! However, I attempt to drive the car home, and the car seems to drive okay. Whenever I stop, the idle is still at 1900 RPM. The tachometer at first sat at 0for about 3-5 minutes during the drive home, and then somehow started working during the drive home. The check engine light was on the whole ride home.

I got the car home, and it sat overnight. I went to start the car today, everything starts up perfect, car idles fine, no check engine light, nothing. However, on a short test drive around the neighborhood, the exact same issue happens the exact same way, so it's def not a fluke incident.

This time, I was close to my local Ford Dealership (which has a special SHO mechanic on full time staff) so I dropped it off there. However, I'd like some input into as what some of the forum members think might be the problem?

The reason I ask is I just spent a decent amount of money on the hard brake line fix, and I want to get the 60k service done on the car, but I don't want to be putting a ton of money into the car if the issue is so serious that I'd be better off not fixing the car. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[mhoffman1981]

camshaft positioning sensor?

 

[sperold]

You have come to the right place. You are going to fix the car. Get the car back out of the dealership as fast as you can. There is a specialist for this car right in your home state. You can find him on this forum.
The obvious thing is to look for a water pump leak, and look hard because it probably is, particularly if it has sat 2 years. This drips on you crank sensor and fouls up your timing and generally causing problems. The cam sensor mentioned above is a good guess as well. Go to websites like RockAuto and Shosource and get familiar with what parts are available for these cars, all the other parts will have to be bought used in the sale part of this forum.
Get the 60K service done at a place recommended in this forum, do the front one first and while you are in there, do the waterpump, followed by the top one and you will be one happy 95 MTX SHO owner.

 

[NEp8ntballer]

the high idle almost sounds like an idle air control issue. the next time it starts to idle high smack the IAC with the handle of a screwdriver.

 

[Racer X]

Paging Area 91...

 

[rubydist]

Do the 60k service asap, and be sure to change both the crank position sensor and the cam position sensor when you do it. Then either dump out the old gas or drive it long enough to get that stale gas out of there. Put injector cleaner in for the next three tanks of gas. Then see how it runs.

 

[Spcymonkey]

Haha, I guess I also neglected that I'm not a first time SHO owner, so I'm well aware of a lot of the common issues with the car (Had an 89 MTX that lasted 220k miles, purchased new by my father). This would be one of the reasons I purchased this 95, since the mileage was incredibly low. I figured it would need some TLC to get back in top condition.

However, I would greatly appreciate if anyone in the central PA/Baltimore/DC area knew where to recommend me to as far as repairs or a specialist that is reasonable priced for future repairs, as taking it to the dealership obviously isn't the cheapest option on the planet. I'm not 100% mechanically inept (did the calipers, rotors, and brake pad repair job myself), but stuff like the 60k service is just beyond the scope of my abilities.

 

[SHOmethewayhome]

Pa sho shop!!!

 

[JRA2000TL]

Oh wow, you're in York. You aren't very far at all to the PA SHO Shop in Selinsgrove, PA. I think it's a little north of Harrisburg, which you're very close to (been to York a few times).

Brian is good from all the posts I've read. Do like the others said and get it over to him. I wish I had a shop like that near me.

 

[St Louis SHO]

camshaft positioning sensor?

BINGO!

B I N G O, B I N G O, B I N G O, and bingo was his name o.

 

[projectSHO89]

Probably the cam sensor as James already seconded.

Pull your codes and see what the PCM is complaining about.

If you want to, just disconnect the cam sensor. You'll have a 1 in 3 chance of it starting on any given attempt and, once running, will have a CEL that can be ignored. I once ran my 89 that way for a couple of weeks until I got around to replacing the sensor.

 

[mrecoolgar]

The no /erratic tach indicates a cam sensor.
The high idle indicates the idle air controller.
Crank sensor is usually a no start or dies while driving but will restart enventually.

 

[Spcymonkey]

Haha thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it. Anyone know the contact information for the PA Sho Shop?

 

[St Louis SHO]

Area91 here.

 

[shobote]

High idle if often the IAC or a vacuum leak on the intake. I would get the car out of the dealer or you will pay dealer labor charges for a mechanic who probably has only seen a fraction the SHO's Area 91 has worked on.

 

[sdpatt]

BINGO!

B I N G O, B I N G O, B I N G O, and bingo was his name o.

Camshaft position sensor. The symptoms point to the CPS.

 

[geomarathoner]

2 cents worth from experience with my '89 several years ago, as best I remember....the crank position sensor is a "must-have" reading to the computer, but it will make a default assumption and keep running with a CEL if the cam position sensor fails. The DIS fires the plugs at the top of both compression stroke and exhaust stroke.

Mine just totally shut off on the way to or from work, then would restart after several minutes (probably as the residual heat eventually dried out the water pump seep onto the crank sensor) and run perfectly. This happened 3 or 4 times before I eventually read the manuals closely enough and found the leak and told the local Ford "technicians" to replace the pump and sensor. The cam sensor is original from '89 and I've not had a CEL since. At the last 60k interval I had them replace both the water pump and the crank sensor just because it had been a long time.

 

[AREA 91]

Haha thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it. Anyone know the contact information for the PA Sho Shop?

Area91 here.

:wave:

 

[cetroutt]

Haha, I guess I also neglected that I'm not a first time SHO owner, so I'm well aware of a lot of the common issues with the car (Had an 89 MTX that lasted 220k miles, purchased new by my father). This would be one of the reasons I purchased this 95, since the mileage was incredibly low. I figured it would need some TLC to get back in top condition.

However, I would greatly appreciate if anyone in the central PA/Baltimore/DC area knew where to recommend me to as far as repairs or a specialist that is reasonable priced for future repairs, as taking it to the dealership obviously isn't the cheapest option on the planet. I'm not 100% mechanically inept (did the calipers, rotors, and brake pad repair job myself), but stuff like the 60k service is just beyond the scope of my abilities.

if you can do your brakes you can do the 60k service. with the assistance and amount of knowledge available here on this forum you can do anything if you have the patience.

 

[Spcymonkey]

Well, the dealership had a chance to look at my vehicle today, the bill of health is not good. It needs the following:

Master Cylinder and brakes re-bled (obviously)
Fuel Filter and Fuel Pump
60k Service
Water Pump
CPS
New belts all around.

Also, the mechanic (certified SHO specialist btw, not just some yahoo) said the undercarriage has a good amount of rust on it, although the body panels are in great shape and have none at this point.

He said the estimate is about $2700 dollars. Obviously, I'm sure I can knock the price down a bit by doing all this work somewhere cheaper (Area51, hit me back on the PM I sent please!) However, my question now is, what does everyone think, is the car worth saving? I mean for that amount of money I can prolly buy an SHO off the forum in better condition. Any advice? Once again, the SHO has 68k miles on it, interior is in excellent shape, and the tires, pads, rotors, calipers, hard and soft brake lines are brand new. Thanks guys!