Troubleshooting P0016

[Good2Go]

Hello SHO Community,

I have a 2013 with the dreaded P0016 engine code. The thing is its been on for months, I've noticed no issues / unusual characteristics with my idle / startup / driving, and it even occasionally goes away on its own only for it to reappear the next day. I'm kind of inclined to believe its NOT a timing chain issue, which this code can often times signify. Could it actually be the sensor on bank 1 position A as my SCT is telling me, or could it be something else? At the moment, its driving me nuts not because of any performance issues but because its blocking me from using my remote start since the code doesn't stay cleared when I try to get rid of it.

 

[seasoned_shrimp]

Hello SHO Community,

I have a 2013 with the dreaded P0016 engine code. The thing is its been on for months, I've noticed no issues / unusual characteristics with my idle / startup / driving, and it even occasionally goes away on its own only for it to reappear the next day. I'm kind of inclined to believe its NOT a timing chain issue, which this code can often times signify. Could it actually be the sensor on bank 1 position A as my SCT is telling me, or could it be something else? At the moment, its driving me nuts not because of any performance issues but because its blocking me from using my remote start since the code doesn't stay cleared when I try to get rid of it.

I had the same (lack of) symptoms and still ended up with a pretty stretched timing chain when I first picked the car up last year.

I did try to replace the two sensors (cheapest fix versus the timing chain..) but it didn't do anything.

I hate to be that guy, but it really is likely a stretched timing chain. I would suggest replacing the water pump while already in there so you can **** two birds with one stone.

 

[Good2Go]

I had the same (lack of) symptoms and still ended up with a pretty stretched timing chain when I first picked the car up last year.

I did try to replace the two sensors (cheapest fix versus the timing chain..) but it didn't do anything.

I hate to be that guy, but it really is likely a stretched timing chain. I would suggest replacing the water pump while already in there so you can **** two birds with one stone.

How long did it take for the symptoms to worsen, and what were the signs that finally made you realize it was the timing chain?

 

[seasoned_shrimp]

How long did it take for the symptoms to worsen, and what were the signs that finally made you realize it was the timing chain?

The symptoms never really did 'worsen', (the most I had was a slight rumble that was a little different than normal idle), I just knew it needed to get fixed before one day I'd try to start it and it wouldn't want to work OR drive it down the road and the engine stop.

Once I replaced the sensors and nothing changed, I decided it was time to change the chain... it was a very good call.

These cars eat chains like it's going out of business. If you get PO016, it's likely the chain. Preventative maintenance moving forward (constant oil changes, good oil quality) will prevent that chain from stretching like that in the future.

 

[Good2Go]

The symptoms never really did 'worsen', (the most I had was a slight rumble that was a little different than normal idle), I just knew it needed to get fixed before one day I'd try to start it and it wouldn't want to work OR drive it down the road and the engine stop.

Once I replaced the sensors and nothing changed, I decided it was time to change the chain... it was a very good call.

These cars eat chains like it's going out of business. If you get PO016, it's likely the chain. Preventative maintenance moving forward (constant oil changes, good oil quality) will prevent that chain from stretching like that in the future.

I change my oil every 3-4 thousand miles, although I bought the car with 80k miles and I don't fully know what the previous owners maintenance routine was like. The previous owner was a parts and services manager at a ford dealer and thus took care of it pretty well although I don't know if he ever had the timing chain done. Still that's a damn shame, there's a lot I like about this car but maintenance on it is so hard to do. nearly broke my hand just trying to do a blend door actuator. Well, I'll start setting aside 3 grand for the job then, ugh. Built Ford Tough my a**

 

[seasoned_shrimp]

I change my oil every 3-4 thousand miles, although I bought the car with 80k miles and I don't fully know what the previous owners maintenance routine was like. The previous owner was a parts and services manager at a ford dealer and thus took care of it pretty well although I don't know if he ever had the timing chain done. Still that's a damn shame, there's a lot I like about this car but maintenance on it is so hard to do. nearly broke my hand just trying to do a blend door actuator. Well, I'll start setting aside 3 grand for the job then, ugh. Built Ford Tough my a**

Similar story. Guy took care of it, but not sure if he had ever done the timing chain. Had to open the wallet and now I ensure every oil change is done on time.

Only spent about $2,000 for the job. Local family-ran, two-door shop that I usually take big projects to did it over a weekend for me. Of course, that's Midwest pricing. Not sure what they cost outside of this area. I would avoid the dealership like the plague..

 

[Good2Go]

Similar story. Guy took care of it, but not sure if he had ever done the timing chain. Had to open the wallet and now I ensure every oil change is done on time.

Only spent about $2,000 for the job. Local family-ran, two-door shop that I usually take big projects to did it over a weekend for me. Of course, that's Midwest pricing. Not sure what they cost outside of this area. I would avoid the dealership like the plague..

I know a very similar shop. Will def take it there when the time comes. Thanks for the advice

 

[marshallma0504]

Hello SHO Community,

I have a 2013 with the dreaded P0016 engine code. The thing is its been on for months, I've noticed no issues / unusual characteristics with my idle / startup / driving, and it even occasionally goes away on its own only for it to reappear the next day. I'm kind of inclined to believe its NOT a timing chain issue, which this code can often times signify. Could it actually be the sensor on bank 1 position A as my SCT is telling me, or could it be something else? At the moment, its driving me nuts not because of any performance issues but because its blocking me from using my remote start since the code doesn't stay cleared when I try to get rid of it.

This is exactly what was happening with my SHO. I have a bunch of threads on my profile related to it but I’m convinced it’s timing chains. The going away and coming back puzzles me as well but it’s not a good idea to keep driving on a P0016. I’m doing my own timing job and have a link to a ford repair manual if you would like it you can PM me on here and I’ll drop the link. Also, go OEM for the components. I’ve read and heard many horror stories of aftermarket cheap guides failing, phasers failing etc. so far I’ve dropped $1200 ish on parts. Way better for me at 23 with not a lot of savings and credit.

 

[Zpak]

You can use a scan tool to compare desired cam timing vs actual cam timing. Should be close to zero difference. 5 or more indicates chain stretch.

 

[marshallma0504]

You can use a scan tool to compare desired cam timing vs actual cam timing. Should be close to zero difference. 5 or more indicates chain stretch.

My mechanic did mine and it’s 15 degrees. Definitely recommend getting a live data scan done.

 

[Good2Go]

My mechanic did mine and it’s 15 degrees. Definitely recommend getting a live data scan done.

How did they do it? Because to my knowledge a timing light Doesn’t work on these cars since the balancer doesn’t have any timing marks on it? I just want to know because I don’t even know if my mechanic has the tools to read the timing

 

[Good2Go]

You can use a scan tool to compare desired cam timing vs actual cam timing. Should be close to zero difference. 5 or more indicates chain stretch.

All I have is an SCT X4 OBD2 plugin. It can read codes but I’m not too savvy with it so I’m not sure if it can tell me any useful info about the timing. And I don’t think the harmonic balancer has any timing marks on it since the ignition computer controlled. Do you know what tool to use?

 

[marshallma0504]

How did they do it? Because to my knowledge a timing light Doesn’t work on these cars since the balancer doesn’t have any timing marks on it? I just want to know because I don’t even know if my mechanic has the tools to read the timing

If you have a laptop you can download forscan or contact someone with a reader that can do live timing data. Typically those are the tablet style ones that cost thousands. But was worth it for me to figure out if I didn’t do the job soon it was going to jump teeth and junk my engine.

 

[luigisho]

If you have a laptop you can download forscan or contact someone with a reader that can do live timing data. Typically those are the tablet style ones that cost thousands. But was worth it for me to figure out if I didn’t do the job soon it was going to jump teeth and junk my engine.

You do forscan or tablet scantool?

 

[Good2Go]

If you have a laptop you can download forscan or contact someone with a reader that can do live timing data. Typically those are the tablet style ones that cost thousands. But was worth it for me to figure out if I didn’t do the job soon it was going to jump teeth and junk my engine.

Ok, did a pull using a laptop with SCT LiveLink, primarily looking at ignition timing and VVT stuff since the cam sensors weren’t displaying anything. The variable valve timing on bank 2 was reading 7.23 degrees at idle, and bank 1 was 11.23. At full throttle from a 40 roll the car was pulling about 3.5 degrees of timing. Do those readings seem off at all? I was gonna test it again with some octane booster in it soon go see if that eliminates the timing getting pulled since I was getting some knock.

 

[marshallma0504]

You do forscan or tablet scantool?

Haven’t yet but going to when I get the timing job done to make sure it’s all in spec.

 

[marshallma0504]

Ok, did a pull using a laptop with SCT LiveLink, primarily looking at ignition timing and VVT stuff since the cam sensors weren’t displaying anything. The variable valve timing on bank 2 was reading 7.23 degrees at idle, and bank 1 was 11.23. At full throttle from a 40 roll the car was pulling about 3.5 degrees of timing. Do those readings seem off at all? I was gonna test it again with some octane booster in it soon go see if that eliminates the timing getting pulled since I was getting some knock.

Check the knock sensor wires for chafing. Was more common on the 2010-2012’s but still could be a false reading.

 

[Good2Go]

Check the knock sensor wires for chafing. Was more common on the 2010-2012’s but still could be a false reading.

Took a look. Yeah there’s a good chance this could be the cause, I honestly never would’ve noticed this unless you told me to look. Regardless of whether or not this is the problem is so shoddy, I don’t know how ford thought this was ok. That’s wiring right on the hot engine. I’ll either wrap it in some electric tape or use a tie to move it out of the way later this week.

 

[marshallma0504]

Took a look. Yeah there’s a good chance this could be the cause, I honestly never would’ve noticed this unless you told me to look. Regardless of whether or not this is the problem is so shoddy, I don’t know how ford thought this was ok. That’s wiring right on the hot engine. I’ll either wrap it in some electric tape or use a tie to move it out of the way later this week. View attachment 93788

Good find, idk personally if that’s directly related to the timing or just detonation. That would be a question for a qualified mechanic but still worth a check for sure.

 

[Good2Go]

Good find, idk personally if that’s directly related to the timing or just detonation. That would be a question for a qualified mechanic but still worth a check for sure.

ziptied it out of the way, taped up the wires with electrical tape, dumped some octane booster in it just to be safe, and cleared the code last evening. code came back on today during my lunch. I'm gonna try a crank relearn later today using my SCT, and if that doesnt work im gonna assume its either timing chain or vvt solenoid