I hate these cars. 60k issues

[green91SHOPlus]

I'll keep this sweet and short. As much as I love these cars when they run, I absolutely hate them when they don't. I'm doing part of a front 60k, and I've run into some problems. The rear tensioner is frozen, so I can't adjust it at all. I found that the subframe is HANGING because the plate that went in between the bushing and bolt rotted out, and the timing gear on the crankshaft WILL NOT BUDGE. At all. I've broken two bolts and warped another trying to pull that bastard. I can't find an m6x1.0 that's long enough to accommodate any puller that I have. There is a huge multitude of problems with this vehicle. But unlike my previous SHO, at least it looks and rides real nice! Any advice would be appreciated. Now if you'll excuse me, my buddy and I are going to take a die-grinder to that damned gear...

 

[doclees]

Any history on the car? could the crank have been welded due to crank cancer?

 

[93rev2sev]

I've run into tough timing gears. Get the heat gun or torch out and heat that sucker up...then pull it. But get the right bolts first.

Snug up the puller, heat up the gear, apply tension slowly to puller center bolt. Let it sit with the bolt tight and keep heating it...try not to heat the crank.

Is this the 91? You arent clear on ATX/MTX if MTX...

Are you removing the tensioner? If not, you should. With the tensioner off, you can get to the sliding bolt to get it freed up. I've had to use a vise on the top of the tensioning bolt and then turn the tensioner body back and forth to get it freed up.

 

[green91SHOPlus]

I don't know anything on the car as far as history, and the guy that I got it off of didn't know anything about it, either. It's moved maybe an inch, but that was an incredibly difficult inch, haha. So I don't think anything's been welded. Everything LOOKED alright. The position sensor and timing belt looked relatively new. I tried heating it up, but I probably wasn't patient enough. I'm kinda scared to burn anything because the front main seal is bad and there's oil everywhere, and it immediately starts smoking when I apply the torch to anywhere but the top of the gear. I can't find any long enough bolts to fit the puller, and a soft 1/4" bolt that I force-threaded into there broke off, and I don't have anything to pull it out with. Leaving me with one hole for a bolt at the moment. I'm going to try to see if I can get a claw puller that would be small enough to fit in there, because at this point, the gear is screwed, so anything goes! Haha. Thanks for your advice so far. It's an MTX, by the way. I didn't know if there was a difference in the belt tensioners or not, sorry about that.

 

[green91SHOPlus]

I was able to get it off by spraying wd-40 behind the gear, tap it back, and then pry it out. So now it's together and running, but it surges now. I couldn't get the middle timing cover to go back on right, so now it's slightly scraping against the harmonic balancer, enough to make it sound like a tiny diesel engine, haha. I'm listening to it right now. It idles alright for a few moments, and then drops to about 500 or 600, then comes back to idle again just fine for a few moments. The first time I started it up, it ran alright, then died. I didn't have the maf plugged in, but now I have everything plugged in and done right. IAB, perhaps? Isn't the car supposed to die when you unplug that sensor?

 

[green91SHOPlus]

So I went to take it out of my neighborhood. No problems. I get to the main road, went to take off and it sputtered real bad then died. I tried to start it, and it wouldn't fire. I waited a few moments, tried it again and started right up. Idled very smoothly for a few minutes until I went to take off again. I went about 200 feet before it sputtered and got crappy again. It only did it when I tried to take off, but then it immediately turned into running crappy when I gave it any gas, and now it won't start at all. It just turns. Any advice other than plastic explosives? Because that's what I'm thinking...

 

[SHOBlu]

Check your codes first. Maybe they will lead you in the right direction. Also, look over everything you did on the drive belt side. Harness connectors, vacume lines, and make sure all your grounds are tight and clean. That should be enough to get you started.

 

[warmonger]

check the line we hooked up in the parking lot the day you left? pull the manifold and check both ends...that would be my guess for a vac leak/

 

[green91SHOPlus]

Well, there was a ground that I missed that bolted to the manifold. I'm not used to there being one there, I'm used to the 1st gens I've owned, haha. So now it fires up again, but runs AWFUL. The timing is horribly off, but it definitely seems electrical. I guess I'm going to have to see if I can get a replacement crank sensor, for I'm sure I messed something up...

 

[green91SHOPlus]

check the line we hooked up in the parking lot the day you left? pull the manifold and check both ends...that would be my guess for a vac leak/

That hose is fine on both ends. It's just a crank relief hose of some sort. I kind of wish this was just a vacuum leak, hahaha. I have to get the gold SHO back! I just have too!!! Haha. Do you offer financing? :laugh_ti:

 

[SHOBlu]

Green91, did the car run well before you removed the timing belt? If it did, your problem lies in there. Maybe the air gap for the crank position sensor is off or when you removed the crank pulley did you bend the sensor ring (the part with the windows for the CPS)? Also, recheck your timing belt timing.

Keep at it...... you'll get it!

 

[warmonger]

That hose is fine on both ends. It's just a crank relief hose of some sort. I kind of wish this was just a vacuum leak, hahaha. I have to get the gold SHO back! I just have too!!! Haha. Do you offer financing? :laugh_ti:

yeah,500 and its yours!!! or get the green one running and bring it back

 

[gtstang1967]

to pull out the timing gear on the crank you use the 2 longest blots from the timing covers. this should help you out
http://www.shophoenixproject.com/lower60k/lower60k.htm

 

[green91SHOPlus]

Green91, did the car run well before you removed the timing belt? If it did, your problem lies in there. Maybe the air gap for the crank position sensor is off or when you removed the crank pulley did you bend the sensor ring (the part with the windows for the CPS)? Also, recheck your timing belt timing.

Keep at it...... you'll get it!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have the timing right. The cam gears were at 12, and the crank gear was at 5 with #1 tdc. I folded a piece of paper to .03 using a pair of machinist calipers and gapped the sensor properly. The shutter was straight, it was pulled off of a bad block that I have sitting at a buddy's house. The original is pretty shot, though...haha. The belt is tight and the top gears are in perfect order still.

to pull out the timing gear on the crank you use the 2 longest blots from the timing covers. this should help you out
http://www.shophoenixproject.com/lower60k/lower60k.htm

I would...but there was only one of the long ones. It had been opened up before, apparently. But that bolt got warped, haha. I found that the valve cover bolts fit in there, though. So next time I have to, I can use the spare valve cover bolts I have to try and pull it out. They already have a big enough head and everything so I'm assuming that they'd work out perfectly.

Thanks for all of your support. I know I can get it worked out, but it's just the fact of time and money like most people on here. The fact that I rely on this car for daily transportation doesn't help, either. But now I have an old Dodge Shadow to take care of that! So the green 95 has officially turned into a project, haha. I'm guessing I'm just going to have to replace as many sensors as I can if it turns out that the CPS is still good.

 

[SHOBlu]

Before you start replacing parts, pull the codes. If it runs like **** then most likely a code has been tripped. Its worth a try at least.

 

[green91SHOPlus]

Before you start replacing parts, pull the codes. If it runs like **** then most likely a code has been tripped. Its worth a try at least.

So I've been told. I'll have to do that when I get back from work. KOER codes will be fun...haha.

 

[green91SHOPlus]

Ok, I finally got these codes today:

KOEO, by the way. I didn't even even attempt KOER because when I start it, it fires up alright enough, but dies immediately after on it's way to idle.

Initial code:
551 - Intake Manifold Runner Control

Stored codes:
157 - MAF is/was low or grounded
211 - Ignition PID signal missing or erratic; Ignition system
214 - error in cylender I.D. circuit or signal
219 - SPOUT circuit failure, timing defaulted to 10 degrees (follow 213 diagnosis)
542 - Fuel pump open, bad ground/always on

the 200's codes I have listed there could point to either the CKP or CPS, right? When I replaced the crank sensor and put it all back together, it ran fine and idled for well over 20 minutes with the crazy surge and drop. But as soon as I took it out on the highway, it died when I went to give it any gas. I have yet to take it back apart and check the sensor, but I know I gapped it right. Any other suggestions?

 

[green91SHOPlus]

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=73131&highlight=211
Have you tried a wiggle test yet?

Damn you wiggle test...damn you...

So! I just did the "wiggle test". And it fired right up...

I suppose I forgot to mention that the subframe was hanging on the rear passenger side, making the DIS module to be INCREDIBLY close to the irritating mini-strut mounts. I pulled a bolt and bushing from my rotting 91 plus, and I'm going to throw that in RIGHT NOW. And see what happens...

 

[Eric VerValin]

I had to wiggle a few of my connectors after I put it all together. Stupid weather in this state I tell you!! If you ever need a hand with something.. let me know. I got some of those hardened bolts for things like crank pulleys, and all that now.

 

[93rev2sev]

Uh, oh...another subframe bites the dust?

Those are going to become collector items soon...