Help interpreting Sct log

[tech10002]

Sure, but they should at least offer an OTS tune that doesn’t require a $1600 part to be safe...

They have been tuning these for almost a decade without it with no issues.... why all of a sudden now?


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How long has their upgraded pump been available? Not saying that’s what’s going on here, but they seem to really push that $1600 pump for anyone having issues like these. They definitely need to be more candid about what’s happening and not play it off like it’s no big deal and blame stuff like traction control. I would have never purchased a tuner had I known I had to do another $1600 mod to make it work properly. I asked to return the tuner weeks ago when it first started doing all this crap. I never got an answer. Just got an it’s up to the higher ups type response. Well, I think it’s time somebody higher up responded. If they are unwilling to fix this potentially catastrophic problem without killing power to stock levels, they should offer refunds to those having issues, at least to recent customers.

 

[limited02]

@Livernois Motorsports

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

How long has their upgraded pump been available? Not saying that’s what’s going on here, but they seem to really push that $1600 pump for anyone having issues like these. They definitely need to be more candid about what’s happening and not play it off like it’s no big deal and blame stuff like traction control. I would have never purchased a tuner had I known I had to do another $1600 mod to make it work properly. I asked to return the tuner weeks ago when it first started doing all this crap. I never got an answer. Just got an it’s up to the higher ups type response. Well, I think it’s time somebody higher up responded. If they are unwilling to fix this potentially catastrophic problem without killing power to stock levels, they should offer refunds to those having issues, at least to recent customers.

It is not blaming the issue on tc, there are two different issues, if your vehicle is hitting a limiter that is more than likely tc needing to be turned off but not for everyone this is why we came up with a few updates since then. The issue that desires the fuel pump is when the rpms climb and then stops climbing All of the sudden before the shift, bouncing the limiter has nothing to do with the fuel pressure issue but regardless we have made a few updates since then that have taken care of many people's issues

 

[MHW100]

It is not blaming the issue on tc, there are two different issues, if your vehicle is hitting a limiter that is more than likely tc needing to be turned off but not for everyone this is why we came up with a few updates since then. The issue that desires the fuel pump is when the rpms climb and then stops climbing All of the sudden before the shift, bouncing the limiter has nothing to do with the fuel pressure issue but regardless we have made a few updates since then that have taken care of many people's issues

It was suggested above that regardless if the limiter is hit or a gear is missed there could still be engine damage occurring because of lack of fuel pressure. Is that true?

 

[shoblock]

LMS has commented several times concerning the V11 tune with the stuttering issues. They will say “Those with the issue can remedy it with the Firestorm HPFP.”

And they will also say “A lot of cars do not have this problem.” Which means they at the time were not willing to create a different tune to dial back the power and/or make adjustments to the current V11 tune to fix the fueling issues. Or better yet, offer the V10 or V9 to those customers! But they won’t, they have the tune files, they just flat won’t do it. “There are various improvements in V11 so we no longer supply the older revisions..”

I personally had the same problem as the OP. However, I had already planned to pickup the HPFP instead of the Alky Control methanol setup so I didn’t make a fuss about it.

There are numerous posts on this form and EBPF where I have told LMS and various customer there stuttering issue is due to fueling and it’s in the tune. I have datalogged extensively the LMS V11 tune on the stock pump, it’s not safe.

I have a hard time with LMS based on their previous assertions that ANYTHING under 2000psi is not optimal and can cause problems standardizing on a tune that literally contradicts EVERYTHING they say is safe.

Then their solution is buy a $1,600 part. When the correct answer is they should re-evaluate the V11 tune based on lots of feedback and DATA showing it’s not safe.

But I digress.... this nothing I haven’t been saying since April of 2018...


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Amen
Shoblock

 

[shoblock]

My thought process as well !!! ^^^^^^^

If it was my shop, I would supply exact numbers to all customers who ask. x number of v11 tunes sold, x number of no reported issues, and x number of reported issues. I would then break down the reported issues and include the quantity of successful fixes through updates. The data is there, but I suspect actual, honest numbers would not help sales.

 

[shoblock]

This is some good info.. I would like to invest in a sct device to do some data log. What one should i get? I too get the miss fire when I get into it on the hwy. At the track it runs good thru all the gears. I would like to try different tuners and see who runs the best.. I will say I was impressed with the v11 93 from lms.. But if there are better,safer,and faster tunes I'm all for it..

I recommend the SCT x4.

 

[StealBlueSho]

If it was my shop, I would supply exact numbers to all customers who ask. x number of v11 tunes sold, x number of no reported issues, and x number of reported issues. I would then break down the reported issues and include the quantity of successful fixes through updates. The data is there, but I suspect actual, honest numbers would not help sales.

Yea... no tuner does that. Like literally none.....

Yes, the V11 tune is a HOT tune. It pushes the limits of what the stock system can handle. Like anything else, once you start riding that edge, some components of different cars are not going to have a tolerance for it.

You also need to remember that the reason they do this is because customers want it. The majority of people tuned are willing to take that risk for extra ponies. These car blow up stock... so it’s up the end user if they are willing to run a tune.

LMS has been supplying people with updates tunes to address some of the issues particularly with shifting.

I still think there is a fueling issue, and that LMS should at least provide a tune like they do on the 2010-2012 cars that is well within the fueling capabilities of these cars stock fuel system.

But how many of these cars have they tuned? How many people are coming back with issues? I’m betting the ratio is small.


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[SHOdded]

^^^ agreed. Likely beating a dead horse here. Lets move on ...

 

[MHW100]

Yea... no tuner does that. Like literally none.....

Yes, the V11 tune is a HOT tune. It pushes the limits of what the stock system can handle. Like anything else, once you start riding that edge, some components of different cars are not going to have a tolerance for it.

You also need to remember that the reason they do this is because customers want it. The majority of people tuned are willing to take that risk for extra ponies. These car blow up stock... so it’s up the end user if they are willing to run a tune.

LMS has been supplying people with updates tunes to address some of the issues particularly with shifting.

I still think there is a fueling issue, and that LMS should at least provide a tune like they do on the 2010-2012 cars that is well within the fueling capabilities of these cars stock fuel system.

But how many of these cars have they tuned? How many people are coming back with issues? I’m betting the ratio is small.


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According to Anthony V11 is not a hot tune . Its middle of the rode.

 

[StealBlueSho]

According to Anthony V11 is not a hot tune . Its middle of the rode.

He is right as a whole. But most of these people complaining of issues are running basic bolt on. Add meth, turbos, bigger HPFP, or any combination of them and the tunes get more powerful with the help of the supporting mods.

For a basic bolt on or 3BAR tune only, the V11 is a hot tune for the stock system.


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[MHW100]

He is right as a whole. But most of these people complaining of issues are running basic bolt on. Add meth, turbos, bigger HPFP, or any combination of them and the tunes get more powerful with the help of the supporting mods.

For a basic bolt on or 3BAR tune only, the V11 is a hot tune for the stock system.


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I defer to your expertise and knowledge to which far surpasses mine but that is not the impression I have from him . It's middle ground on stock with 3 bar Cai tstat as mods .

 

[StealBlueSho]

I defer to your expertise and knowledge to which far surpasses mine but that is not the impression I have from him . It's middle ground on stock with 3 bar Cai tstat as mods .

I think your impression is misguided. They tune to the maximum allowable based on mods and octane on the 2013+. Looking at the load in the datalogs, the V11 is pretty stout. And if you are not getting premium summer 93 octane, you are getting some KR. The V11 pushes the maximum amount of load for 93 octane...

Downpipes, CAI, and Exhaust don’t need any modifications in the tune (except disabling the rear O2’s)

The 3BAR and Tstat are really the only things that require adjustment to properly use.

Otherwise it’s all tuning and available octane. Of which the V11 maxes out what you can get on 93 octane.

The fuel pressure issue is due to how rich they run, not how much power you are producing. The extra fuel helps cool the cylinders and exhaust gases. And based on the dyno comparison, running at 12.0:1 (GH)vs 10.8:1(LMS) doesn’t net you much but it does help by taking stress off the stock fuel system (and helps with carbon build up)...

Again, Anthony is right, in the large scale of things the standard V11 tune is pretty middle of the road. For a basic bolt on car running 93 octane, it’s dialed up pretty good.


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[MHW100]

I think your impression is misguided. They tune to the maximum allowable based on mods and octane on the 2013+. Looking at the load in the datalogs, the V11 is pretty stout. And if you are not getting premium summer 93 octane, you are getting some KR. The V11 pushes the maximum amount of load for 93 octane...

Downpipes, CAI, and Exhaust don’t need any modifications in the tune (except disabling the rear O2’s)

The 3BAR and Tstat are really the only things that require adjustment to properly use.

Otherwise it’s all tuning and available octane. Of which the V11 maxes out what you can get on 93 octane.

The fuel pressure issue is due to how rich they run, not how much power you are producing. The extra fuel helps cool the cylinders and exhaust gases. And based on the dyno comparison, running at 12.0:1 (GH)vs 10.8:1(LMS) doesn’t net you much but it does help by taking stress off the stock fuel system (and helps with carbon build up)...

Again, Anthony is right, in the large scale of things the standard V11 tune is pretty middle of the road. For a basic bolt on car running 93 octane, it’s dialed up pretty good.


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Well I better get clear because I'm not interested in blowing my engine with 5 years of warranty left.

 

[Raging Bull]

So are you saying the GH tune is a better tune ? Or in so many words could be safer for many different reasons ?

 

[SM105K]

It is crazy the fuel pressure drop in that LMS v11 has on that log.

What is the general consensus on what is dangerously low fuel pressure?

 

[StealBlueSho]

So are you saying the GH tune is a better tune ? Or in so many words could be safer for many different reasons ?

No. Two different approaches to get power. Matt doesn’t believe in running as rich as LMS. It’s harder in the fuel supply, creates more carbon, etc...

Traditionally leaning out the mixture results in more power, however, based on the dyno it didn’t make that much more power considering how much leaner GH runs.

Two schools of thought with DI motors... I’m not an expert so I would leave it to the tuners to dish out. Traditionally boosted applications in the port injected days tried to stick to 11.5:1 for safety which is smack dab in the middle of GH and LMS.

Would I say one is safer than the other? No. Just two different approaches. I will say that LMS tunes everything with the SHO being a small subset...

Matt tunes diesel motors historically which are DI iirc... and specializes in the EB motors. He is more focused on this platform. He was also the first one to figure out how to properly tune the upgraded HPFP... he can tune the XDI or the LMS
Upgraded pumps. Needless to say, I have a ton of respect for him.

Take that for what you want.


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[StealBlueSho]

It is crazy the fuel pressure drop in that LMS v11 has on that log.

What is the general consensus on what is dangerously low fuel pressure?

1500psi is low... no tuner I know of will go lower. They will pull power if they see anything below 1500... that is Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, etc

800psi is stupid low. The motor will not run correctly. I have been there, it’s ugly.


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[mattr66]

1500psi is low... no tuner I know of will go lower. They will pull power if they see anything below 1500... that is Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, etc....

Gearhead doesn’t like to see anything below 2000.

800psi is stupid low. The motor will not run correctly. I have been there, it’s ugly.


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Hard to keep 2000psi ... Id rather like to see at least 1700 with no less than 1500 if possible. I run 2900 with a pump and it is a different animal. I also have over 750 revisions on this platform and have been daily driving a 13+ sho for over three and a half years now....

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[StealBlueSho]

Hard to keep 2000psi ... Id rather like to see at least 1700 with no less than 1500 if possible. I run 2900 with a pump and it is a different animal. I also have over 750 revisions on this platform and have been daily driving a 13+ sho for over three and a half years now....

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Funny... I’ve never seen below 2000psi with your tunes... neither my 2010 or my 2013...


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