A quick oil question for you rod bearing guys

[spazmoid]

hey i was just wondering for all of you guys that have changed their rod bearings, when you pulled them out did you see wear, and what kind of oil have you been running in your car? Thanks, i'm just conducting my own survey of sorts to see which oils work better.

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, I had only put 20k on my car when my bearings were swapped and I used GTX every 2k, and two bearings had copper showing minimally. They were done at 142k.

This will be a difficult survey unless everybody here on the board is a 1st owner.....which they arn't.

Doug

 

[yamapowered]

hey i was just wondering for all of you guys that have changed their rod bearings, when you pulled them out did you see wear, and what kind of oil have you been running in your car? Thanks, i'm just conducting my own survey of sorts to see which oils work better.

this is going to be a long thread in a few days.
I believe it depends on how you drive your SHO than what oil you run
I use Amsoil only in all my vehicles and I am pleased with the results.
I have been using Amsoil 10w30 In my SHO 1991 with mtx and I abuse this engine and drivetrain and I did get the dreaded SHO knock and had to replace rod bearings, I posted a thread a few months back.

I feel the wear comes from my abuse and not the oil, there is alot of SHO guys here that all have had to change rod bearings and Im sure its cause we love to rev the **** out of these engines.
it seems to me the guys here that run thier cars at the track/road course
know that thier rod bearings have numbered days when used at the track.

I still use 10w30 Amsoil and if I go to the track for an event I will use Amsoil 20w50 as an experiment.

I have a bondurant SHO that I will be using on the track soon but I cant abuse that car like my 91 mtx cause it is an automatic car.

I havent tried 20w50 in my 91 SHO but if I get any more rod bearing issues I may have to change to thicker weight, but for now 10w30 Amsoil gets abused
for 20k oil change intervals
Javier

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

oil change intervals is MUCH more important than what kind of oil you use.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

oil change intervals is MUCH more important than what kind of oil you use.

Agreed.

Also, I've seen cars with seemingly impeccable maintenance with bearings that were really worn, and others that looked like the hood was maybe opened once every couple of years with bearings that looked mint. I ultimately believe bearing wear may be more of a factor of how the car is driven (lugging, or revving high before the oil is up to temp) than with the particular brand or formulation of oil used.

That being said, I've become a pretty firm believer that rod bearings should be considered a preventative maintenance item at around 120K miles.

 

[RAYJAY]

here is mine at 106,000

and don't use walmart and jiffy **** for oil changes my 94 atx was a one owner car with oil changes every 3 to 4,00 mile(have all slips on oil changes )

SO CHANGE YOUR ROD BEARING its the best dollars you can spend on your car

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

here is mine at 106,000

and don't use walmart and jiffy **** for oil changes my 94 atx was a one owner car with oil changes every 3 to 4,00 mile(have all slips on oil changes

Seeing all that buildup makes me very suspicious of wether or not the oil was actually changed.

Here are mine at just about 100k (96k IIRC)

Ive got every reciept for oil changes. Religiously at 3k, but only done with whatever oil was on sale.

These had a LOT more in them, very little wear. But I had an oil light flicker. No noises though. Later I found out that the oil PSI sender was on its way out.

 

[RAYJAY]

when you go to the fast change oil place they use bulk oil you never know what your getting ....

Jeff

 

[RonPorter]

Seeing all that buildup makes me very suspicious of wether or not the oil was actually changed.

Here are mine at just about 100k (96k IIRC)

Ive got every reciept for oil changes. Religiously at 3k, but only done with whatever oil was on sale.

These had a LOT more in them, very little wear. But I had an oil light flicker. No noises though. Later I found out that the oil PSI sender was on its way out.

I agree about whether or not the oil was changed. OTOH, 106K miles over 10 years? Sounds like a lot of stop-n-go to me. 3k changes may have been too long to wait.

I bought my '89 new, drove the **** out of it for 10 years and 182K miles. The oil was also changed religiously every 3K and it was done with whatever oil change place had a coupon, plus the few changes that I did were with whatever oil and filter was on sale.

The new owner (friend of mine) pulled the pan at around 200K (pan gasket leak). He checked the bearings, and said they looked good enough to leave in (which he did), and there was no pan sludge to clean.

Now, I had a '95 MTX wit a very questionable history. At 86K, here's some pics of the totally trashed bearings (scroll down to the bearings):

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1097730&uid=168194

I suspect poor maintenance, as well as lugging the engine.

 

[oh_SHO]

Does anybody have examples of oil pressure just before the RBs being changed? I think that would be good info for this thread (and to help my possible problem).

 

[RAYJAY]

when i bought the car i got a shoe box with all the parts,oil changes tires ect.ect. that was done to the car when the lady owned it. she bought the car when she lived in dc area and used the fast **** places most of the cars life, and by looking at the bills that came with the car looks like they used quakerstate or pennsoil on most of the changes.
(if the quick **** even changed the oil ) however the car was driven mostly city driving.... i was getting a oil light when i got on the car a little bit and stured up the sludge. as for the remaning aludge been changing the oil every 2,000 mile and using rislone the clean out the gunk it working great motor does not burn any oil i just get a valve guide puff once in a while (2 times in 4,000 miles ) i do have a 2nd 3.2 to drop in if needed.......


Jeff

 

[RonPorter]

I'm sure that the quick **** place changed the oil. I know of a couple of examples over the years where the filter did not get changed, but that wouldn't even cause a sludge issue. Personally, I always got out of the car a watched what was going on.

It sounds like she had a lot of short-trip driving that never got the oil hot enough. That's when sludge can build up, when water and other contaminants don't get burned off.

FWIW, my wife's car is a '95 Del Sol that we bought new. When we moved back to MI in '99 it had around 22K on it. Now. 6.5 years later, it just turned 42K. It isn't driven often (gross understatement!!), but when it it driven, it is normally driven far enough to get hot. I just changed the oil after 3K miles, but the last change was 10/9/2003! The oil comes out pretty clean, as 90%+ of the trips in the car are at least 10 miles one way.

 

[jedhead]

I am a second owner on my 1991 SHO. I bought it Aug 1993 with 17K. I changed the rod bearings at 94K because I was having a light knock. Only bearings for cyl 3 & 4 showed copper and a lot of wear. The other cylinders still had all the lead and no copper was showing. Also those two bearing had a very strong smell of burnt oil. Also noticable was discoloration of the bearings at 3 & 4 too. I believe some kind of temporary oil starvation for those cylinders was the cause of bearing failure. The oil pan and oil pickup screen was clean and shiney with no sludge. I have over 40K after the change with no problems. I have used Mobil 1 10W-30 exclusively. I also have used Motorcraft filters too.

Bob

 

[RonPorter]

I have over 40K after the change with no problems. I have used Mobil 1 10W-30 exclusively. I also have used Motorcraft filters too.

Bob

You bring up another key point. Over the last few years, there have been oil discussions, and John Hrinsin (guy with the world's sweetest n/a V6!!) has done a fair amount of analsyis on it. Pretty much seems that after some mileage (folks pick anywhere from 75K, 100K, etc), don't use 5w-30 oil, except in a cold clmate in the winter. Stay with 10w-30. With the high-volume low-pressure system that the SHO has, folks have noticed some VERY low pressure numbers at low rpm and/or on cold starts. 5w-30 is the EPA gas-mileage oil anyway, just like that really scary (for performance cars, anyway) 5w-20 that they have gone to. After 10K on my '89, I went to 10w-30 for everything but the few winter months. In hindsight, it was probably a good thing.

 

[yamapowered]

here is mine at 106,000

and don't use walmart and jiffy **** for oil changes my 94 atx was a one owner car with oil changes every 3 to 4,00 mile(have all slips on oil changes )

SO CHANGE YOUR ROD BEARING its the best dollars you can spend on your car

after seeing that, its very possible one of two things happened to that ladys SHO
quick cash oil change took her money, or she did many short trips less than 10 miles over a period of 5 years or longer.
I know for certain that Using a quality synthetic motor oil wont create sludge.
Amsoil products have had independent testing to prove that thier oil wont create sluge even after 80 hours continuous runninig time Amsoil lasted more than twice what conventional oil lasted.

even after my rod bearings were toasted if you look on my thread {rod bearing fun} and look in the pan, the oil that was in the pan when I removed for rod bearing change only had 27k miles and you wont see a spec of any sludge.
the bearings sure didnt look too hot but I bought my 91 SHO with close to 70k on it from 2nd owner which I know personally and he can #$%@ a steel ball with a rubber hammer, I know he abused that drivetrain, I used to see candycanes he left on the street years ago when he used the car from his g/f dad, the original owner. then he bought the car and used it 2 yrs with no maintanence, when I bought it it was a well worn out 70k mile car.
I have spent lots of money fixing the SHO up and learning here, with the SHO nuts here how to keep this car running in top shape.

I love to play with corvette owners and BMW guys they always get ****** the most, the firebird guys want to know whats in that thing?

well anyway nobody here will convince anyone here what oil to use and whats the best, all that I can do is post the results I have with the lubricants I use and Im happy to say that the product I use saves me enough money to buy next years oil change, since I only change oil once a year.
I even get a check back from the company I buy oil from for commision credits.
does discount oil do that?
Javier

 

[RonPorter]

after seeing that, its very possible one of two things happened to that ladys SHO
quick cash oil change took her money, or she did many short trips less than 10 miles over a period of 5 years or longer.
I know for certain that Using a quality synthetic motor oil wont create sludge.
Amsoil products have had independent testing to prove that thier oil wont create sluge even after 80 hours continuous runninig time Amsoil lasted more than twice what conventional oil lasted.

Well, I basically don't believe that bad rap (virtually all rumors) that the quick-change places get. Every time that I have talked to the folks in those places (which is every time that I have used them over the last 20 years), the employees are generally "car folks" and seem interested.

Key thing is that I absolutely don't believe the statement about "a quality synthetic motor oil wont (sic) create sludge". The "80-hour" test is bogus, as once ANY oil is hot, the sludge-creating contaminants are burned off. Sludge is from contaminants that aren't burned off, and NO oil is immune to that.

I don't want to get into an Amsoil discussion, as I've had enough of those from folks who drink the Amsoil Kool-Aid. All synthetic oils are "quality" oils, despite the slamming that Amsoil loves to do to justify their overpriced MLM product.

If you love using it, fine, but other oils (dino and synthetic) do as good of a job. Most folks will never keep a car (1) from new and (2) long enough to see the effects of oil. 10 years of multiple daily redline shots, dragstrips, MANY smoky burnouts, and road courses, all on dino oil, told me all I need to know about oil on my bought-new '89. The car has somewhere around 210-220K on it now, and it finally starting to blow oil past the valve seals at a quart every 2k miles or so. And will probaby still run 14.80s as it did at 200K.

 

[yamapowered]

Well, I basically don't believe that bad rap (virtually all rumors) that the quick-change places get. Every time that I have talked to the folks in those places (which is every time that I have used them over the last 20 years), the employees are generally "car folks" and seem interested.

Key thing is that I absolutely don't believe the statement about "a quality synthetic motor oil wont (sic) create sludge". The "80-hour" test is bogus, as once ANY oil is hot, the sludge-creating contaminants are burned off. Sludge is from contaminants that aren't burned off, and NO oil is immune to that.

I don't want to get into an Amsoil discussion, as I've had enough of those from folks who drink the Amsoil Kool-Aid. All synthetic oils are "quality" oils, despite the slamming that Amsoil loves to do to justify their overpriced MLM product.

If you love using it, fine, but other oils (dino and synthetic) do as good of a job. Most folks will never keep a car (1) from new and (2) long enough to see the effects of oil. 10 years of multiple daily redline shots, dragstrips, MANY smoky burnouts, and road courses, all on dino oil, told me all I need to know about oil on my bought-new '89. The car has somewhere around 210-220K on it now, and it finally starting to blow oil past the valve seals at a quart every 2k miles or so. And will probaby still run 14.80s as it did at 200K.

do you have to call me a kool aid drinker? :corn:
do you know for certain the 80 hour test is bogus?
do you want the company name that performed the test? :wave:
do you know that I sell Amsoil @ dealer cost? its cheaper than
overpriced Mobile One at Wal Mart.
Can you prove Amsoil makes sludge?
I have been trying for 6 years now,
no sludge yet

before you say things you cant prove or produce fact for, rethink the way you say things, especially dont say you dont want to start a Amsoil discussion, I know why you dont want to, but thats another story
Javier

 

[RonPorter]

This is exactly what i meant about the Amsoil Kool-Aid folks.......ain't goin' there.

Please understand what makes "sludge"...and then you will understand why an "80-hour test" is useless for developing sludge.

If they ran the test in 30-degree temps, and ran the engine for 1 minute, shut it down, let it cool, then repeated a 1-minute test over & over again for 80 hours, then that's a "sludge" test.

The Amsoil argument is carried out on EVERY forum and EVERY mailing list of EVERY car enthusiast forum.

If you believe it all, fine. Spare the rest of us the agony. I told you my personal oil results on probably the only car that I will ever keep that long. I defy any other oil type & schedule to beat it. You would have to go DOUBLE the 200K to do it, and the extra cost of the MLM stuff over that period would more than pay for an engine rebuild.

IMNSHO, oil & filter type discussions don't mean much unless you buy a car new and drive it for 200K+ miles. Any less than that, you are believing an oil company's marketing hype.

 

[SHOtimer]

do you have to call me a kool aid drinker? :corn:
do you know for certain the 80 hour test is bogus?
do you want the company name that performed the test? :wave:
do you know that I sell Amsoil @ dealer cost? its cheaper than
overpriced Mobile One at Wal Mart.
Can you prove Amsoil makes sludge?
I have been trying for 6 years now,
no sludge yet

before you say things you cant prove or produce fact for, rethink the way you say things, especially dont say you dont want to start a Amsoil discussion, I know why you dont want to, but thats another story
Javier

It seems that you seem to just repeat, repeat, and repeat. You like AMSoil, great, fabulous, and you had worn rod bearings, but of course that wasn't the oils fault, because the oil is gold.

Besides that fact - I'm not sure on the rules of this forum, but every other 'dealer' or person who owns a business and does business on this forum pays for it.... It seems to me that you just like to do a lot of advertising in these discussions.

Doug

 

[RonPorter]

Paul Fisher, who is over on the SHOtimes/SHO Tech/V8 lists, is an Amsoil dealer. He ran Amsoil in his '93 ATX for extended changes, and the rod bearings were toast after 150K miles. Gave him a lot of crapola over that!!

Not saying that Amsoil isn't good, but in practical applications, it has NOTHING over other oils. They can pay for all of the test they want. Old-time SHO folks will remember the 32 WHP that Borla got for the original SHO Borla catback system. Yes "dyno proven"!!!!!!!

Except that it is overpriced and overhyped like every other MLM product out there. BTDT.