60k Over Rated?

[MorpheusGPR]

Ok I am trying to find a post that had a discussion on the 60k work...one guy posted about only fixing things as they go bad etc...I really would like to find this post so that I can get the seals/gaskets that he listed as a 60k minimum work and some other things he had listed as well.

I did search but I can't find it nor recall if it was in here or the sho topic forum.

Thanks for the help.

 

[40BelowSummer]

important stuff IMO:

Top: Spark plugs, plug wires, and the valve lash adjustment isnt a bad idea

Lower: Timing belt, you can fix accessory belts, seals, and sensors when they go bad but you'll have to tak everything apart again. Once you get down there replace anything that looks like it may be leaking.

Sorry I couldnt help you find the thread though.

 

[slickn56]

For whats its worth, I have an 89 sho with 177k miles on it that has never had a complete 60k. Its never had any sort of valve lash adjustment, but when I replaced the valve cover gaskets I took a very close look to see if there was any wear on the cams. When the spark plug wells filled with oil, I did the upper 60k, and when the waterpump killed the cps I did the foward 60k. No need to replace things before they need to be done, unless you have a bunch of money and time.

 

[1stSHO]

60K is way over rated!!!!! Kidding.

a 60K is like brakes, you need it!!!! Im having mine done next month. I cant wait to feel it come back to life. If you plan on keeping it i would do it. I plan on keeping mine. Good luck with yours

 

[sphinx311]

my car has 150k and as far as i can tell it has never had a 60k, when i bought it the guy claimed it had, but the plug wells were full of oil. it is expensive, but in my opinion safe yourself the hassle and get all the parts and replace them so you don't have to do the work twice.

 

[Shoaz]

Well, here's yet another opinion: My 95 MTX didn't have any 60k scheduled maintenance indicated by Ford. By then, in order to compete with other cars claiming the same, there was no scheduled maintenance indicated for 100k miles. In other words, even Ford had figured out that a 60k wasn't really necessary at 60k.

I had mine done at about 80k, but only because the valves were starting to make noise. It could have gone quite a bite longer.

That being said, when it was pulled apart the water pump was just barely starting to leak, so we replaced it. This probably averted a CPS failure. Replacing the timing belts, etc., may have prevented a failure as well, who knows.

 

[JoeHoe_SHO]

With parts beging so expensive...I say, if its not broke...dont fix it. but then again, I'm young and dont really make all kinds of money to just go out and buy like 600 bucks in stuff to do a 60K. If I had the money, I would do it every 60k on the dot

 

[sdpatt]

My car would not have gotten to the mileage that it has if I had not taken care of the maintenance required during the 60K services. Try this topic for a list of possible parts and there sources during the top (valve gapping) and front end (timing belt) services.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

Something to think about:

The Toyota 4AGE has a valve shim setup almost exactly like ours. (The head was built by Yamaha... no wonder!) However, the valve shim adjustment is all but UNHEARD of in the Toyota world... no one does it... EVER.

Now, I'm certainly not saying that the valve shim adjustment shouldn't be done (think about it, I RENT a valve shim kit), but my attitude is, while you're in there, get it done. Lots of times we need to take our valve covers off to replace the seals... while you're at it, go the extra mile and get the valve shim adjustment done, and you won't regret it. That's like changing the waterpump while you're doing the timing belt, it just makes sense.

 

[Huntervf]

Of the 20 or so 60k services I've done I've never found a SHO with either:

A. A valve lash more than a .001-.002 off.
B. Any appreciable wear on either valve shims or lobes.

This was on cars up to 200,000 miles, and a majority of the cars had a valve lash that was in spec. The ones that stick out in my mind being out of spec were a 190,000 mile 92 and a 160,000 mile 93. I can't remember what Beth's car was at when I did the 60k but I seem to remember it having a few shims a little out of spec. On the cars that were out of spec they were running strong and had valvetrain noise that didn't sound out of the ordinary.

So do I think the valve lash is overrated? No, simply because it only takes one little problem on one valve shim to ruin a camshaft and possibly a head. Do I think it needs to be done right on at every 60,000 mile interval? No. When the work is done, do I think every shim needs to be changed and the lash set to it's lowest setting? No. I just did a full gauntlet of work on my two SHO's; each one is right around the 110,000 mile mark with no indication of previous 60k work being performed. Didn't change a single shim...didn't need to. All 48 valves were still in factory spec, the cam lobes looked gorgeous and the shims looked good as well. So here's my opinion on the valve lash: When you go in to replace valve cover and plug well gaskets, check the lash. If you don't have any issues that require you to take the valve covers off then don't worry about it until you do. When that time comes, it's all right there in front of you...all it takes is a feeler gauge and about a half hour. If you find some valves out of lash and have shims on hand, do the swap. If everything checks out and the cam lobes look nice and smooth, maybe pop a shim or two out and inspect them just to be sure. If you don't have the tools, inspect the cam lobes and check the shims as best you can in the head. If everything looks good, button it up and call it done.

IMO, more important at 60k are the spark plugs, plug wires, valve cover/spark plug well gaskets, timing belt, front main seal and CPS. All of those items have a shelf life of around 60,000 miles, with exception to the CPS but since the labor to change the CPS is the same involved for the timing belt I recommend replacing that part while you're there, as a CPS failure will leave you stranded. Now that's not to say you can't get more mileage out of these parts, but IMO it's a stretch of the reliable life of these items.

As for the water pump, now that I've found a way to replace it without tearing the whole side of the engine down I don't even worry about it unless it starts to leak, so I no longer consider it a 60k item.

 

[jelloslug]

I thingk the biggest thing now is that most of these cars are on there 3 or more owner. The 1st owner may have had the maintance done on them but the chances of it being go down from. By the time an older one gets in the hands of someone that wants to take care of it even the oil have not been changed properly and now half the seals leak, there are bad sensors, etc. By then it takes a real full 60k just to get it back into proper working order.

 

[Bizzy]

speaking from experience, my brothers 340k mile 94 never had a complete 60k done all its life. changed the timing belt every 60-100k never broke one, changed plugs and wires every 100k or so, waterpump when they leaked, and valve cover seals and plug well seals when they would leak bad too.

Never had a valve lash done.

I think the true 60k notion is crap, the only thing that should be done after 60-100k is plugs, wires and timing belt. Really the timing belt is the real reason for the 60k, just like many Japanese cars, they all recomend timing belt at 60-100k.

 

[Diameg]

I wouldn't say that it is totally useless.

Any time you do maintenance to an old vehicle, you are possibly extending the life of it. That's not to say that at 61,000 miles your SHO will fall apart.
Like Hunter, of all the 60K valve lash adjustments I have seen, not one was actually NEEDED. Just preventative maintenance.

So, I see it as now becoming a financially reasonable thing to do or not. If you are doing it yourself, then that's fine.
But taking it somewhere to have a $1000 60K done on the engine (or whatever places are charging). We are talking about cars that can be bought for less than that.
If you have a mint 95 that just hit 60K, then I would say it's worth it.
however, a 'weathered' 90 with 150K? I'm not so sure it's worth it when you can probably just buy another 90 for $600 or so.

Each car is different and each person's expectations of the car is different. It likely won't fall apart if you don't do it but on the other hand, if you have the money and time, it's not a bad idea either.

 

[PROPHET]

Some people are clean freaks and some are 60k freaks, both are a little ****.

 

[Devin]

I'm doing a semi-full 60K (sensors, belts, water pump, gaskets, seals, rod bearings, and I am going to check the lash). I'm not going to get my valves ground, nor am I going to do anything beyond what I have stated. Since I had to take the heads off I am going to replace the head gaskets and the head bolts, but that is it. The reason I am doing all of this is because it's an eBay engine and I don't want to ever have to do this again

On another note, when I get a garage I will probably buy an engine to make zero-mile just for the heck of it. Maybe even do a stroke and bore for the experience...

 

[Snake2715]

OK,

Sho Times has a couple of nice write ups with listed parts.

For me my 1993 just hit 63k. I did the upper 60k and will do part of the lower 60k this spring summer when its a bit warmer in Michigan.

A few of my valves were out of spec but none showed where. I was glad I did it as this car is pretty new to me and I like to get familiar with my new cars.

The valve gaskets were leaking into the plugs and that is now fixed.

Check sho times for your guide. Their parts list is a little outdated..

I believe Dr. Tweak also has a list linked, or you can check the Sho Phoenix project (SHOPP). I rented the kit from him and couldnt have been happier with his service, price, completness of kit, etc.

Also a few things to take note of.

Do not tighten the valve cover bolts down to 11 ftlbs of torque or you WILL break one or more. Go 7-9 ft lbs and check it in a few weeks for leaks. I did that and have no leaks.

Also one of the most important parts is cleaning the EGR system out. Get to Autozone, Murrays, Advanced Auto etc and have your codes read. Come back here with them. Its a FREE service. Most likely you will have signs of a plugged EGR. Which is easy to unplug while you are doing the 60k.

As far as entirely cleaning the intake with Berrimans B-12 thats up to you. unless its totally filthy I wouldnt really bother. Just get the channels clear.

Anyway post back any codes that and oil in the spark plugs will help us help you decide.

 

[40BelowSummer]

I think you meant the spark plug seals were leaking into the plugs.

Valve Cover bolts: 8-11 lb-ft, I did mine to 11 and they were fine.

You can check your own codes for free too.

 

[Blank-Disk]

The rule with SHOs and most other Fords is: Replace it once with a genuine part and never replace it again. In my experience, that is the case 99% of the time. Doing scheduled maintenance helps both fix problems and prevent future problems. The 60k was designed to take care of problems that are known to be common, meaning you'd do it eventually. But catching it before it goes bad will make life a **** of a lot easier down the road.

 

[Bank of SHO]

I'd rather be a little "****" than be stuck in the middle of nowhere.

 

[roswell998]

I'm doing a semi-full 60K (sensors, belts, water pump, gaskets, seals, rod bearings, and I am going to check the lash). I'm not going to get my valves ground, nor am I going to do anything beyond what I have stated. Since I had to take the heads off I am going to replace the head gaskets and the head bolts, but that is it. The reason I am doing all of this is because it's an eBay engine and I don't want to ever have to do this again

On another note, when I get a garage I will probably buy an engine to make zero-mile just for the heck of it. Maybe even do a stroke and bore for the experience...

To do only the above (unless your reference to seals includes the valve stem seals), why do you need to remove the heads?

And if you are indeed replacing the valve stem seals which requires removal of the valves, I would recommend that you get some valve grinding compound and at least lap them in.