Concerning noises at idle and 1st gear.

[marshallma0504]

Hello, this is a new thread related to my last thread titled “new turbo.” At the end I started talking about I have had and continue to have a metallic slap/rattle noise at idle both cold and hot, but it is much more noticeable lately when the car is cold after replacing the turbo (the extra cold start noise might be related to this polar air.). Through first gear the noise gets faster in rhythm, then goes away entirely shortly before the 1-2 up shift. No drivability concerns or loss of power (actually the opposite since I replaced the front turbo it feels smoother and stronger.) so I am skeptical of if it is valve train related or not. My mechanic brought up the timing degrees and when it was cold, the actual idle was at 12-15 degrees positive timing, while the desired was 0 degrees. Of course which is way out of spec of the + or -5 degrees it is supposed to be. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here’s the links to the YouTube videos, and I plan to also get an under the hood video if needed, or a driving video.

Cold idle video

Hot idle video

 

[kryptto]

Didn't you state your needed a chain phasers etc...

 

[marshallma0504]

Didn't you state your needed a chain phasers etc...

Yes I’m just trying to pinpoint that this is the noise of failing timing components and not any piston to valve contact or connecting rod bearings or piston skirts etc. did you watch the videos? Sorry for the voiceover that was just for context for those that don’t know the story from here.

 

[luigisho]

If you don't have a big noticeable change in power while running likely the piston hasn't fragged a valve. Mechanical engine noises are a red flag. It could run for a year, month or a day depending on what's going on. I'd be worried about oz. of prevention vs pound of cure. There is no great cheap financial answer, only less bad... unless you are really good with wrenching on your vehicle

 

[Texas Marauder]

IMO, that is chain/phaser noise. You already have the P0016 code which indicates chain stretch.

 

[kryptto]

I am on board with @luigisho and want to state my car has zero audible engine noises, thus cant weigh in specifically. HOWEVER, if you can hear the timing chain rattle, how long has it been like that, someone correct me if I am wrong, but riding for any amount of time on a chain that is going/gone = ultimately engine failure, in various degrees.

Timing Chain Problems

Learn how to diagnose and fix issues with timing chain rattle on Ford's 3.5L EcoBoost engine. Causes, symptoms, and replacement options!

tuningpro.co

Common Problems & Reliability

Learn about reliability with Ford's 3.5L EcoBoost and problems including cam phasers, timing chains, carbon buildup and more.

tuningpro.co

 

[luigisho]

I've seen some issues with the Cloyes timing set with eco f150's. I would recommend oem replacement if possible

 

[kryptto]

I've seen some issues with the Cloyes timing set with eco f150's. I would recommend oem replacement if possible

we have a link in these forums with every Ford part number to do the job yourself, OR if working with a shop - make them replace all the items on that list.

 

[kryptto]

Water pump and timing chain

Does anyone have a parts list to change the timing chain and water pump in a 2013? Noticed a small puddle under the car in the garage. I put it up on a lift and it became obvious quickly that it was from that location. I have a place that will do the labor for $600.00 if I get the parts. Just...

shoforum.com

 

[kryptto]

A reminder:

New turbo

Hello all, so yesterday I was driving along car felt great shifted out of third and into fourth gear and the car fell flat on its face no boost whatsoever no turbo spool and it has been like that for the past day tonight however, when I was leaving work. The car barely started and a huge cloud...

shoforum.com

 

[kryptto]

and I found the link - i knew he had a video:

 

[Majestic]

Timing chain. You don't want to run it like that for long. You will ultimately ruin the waterpump and dump coolant into the engine.

 

[marshallma0504]

Yeah I already have the phasers and the water pump as well as the secondary chains and some gaskets and the VCT solenoids. However due to financial problems as of late ($4k in vet bills and I spent $700 on the turbo replacement just last week,) I haven’t been able to purchase the rest of the timing components. I DID order the main chain but the darn thing went on back order. So I am in the process of fixing this issue and I am for lack of a better word “babying” the engine especially when it’s cold and the timing chain chattering is most noticeable as can be heard in the videos. I know running it like this (especially hard) for longer than x amount of days can spell death for my engine hence why I am scrambling to try and get some money together (and praying for warmer weather.) I have watched many videos on this job and via snooping over on other ecoboost forums have found a link to a shop manual of sorts with diagrams on how to do the timing job. I have done a lot of research into this since I’ve had P0016 bothering me on and off since about September I would say. But the rattling has gotten worse at idle since then so that’s why I’m making this post now to gauge how bad the noise sounds based on others experiences with having to have their chains replaced. Remember, I’m at 134k miles. Probably way overdue but I’m doing the best I can to get the job done sooner rather than wait.

 

[marshallma0504]

and I found the link - i knew he had a video:

I have watched that series 2-3 times now lol I know the F150 has different phasers but great content for educational purposes for a DIY-er like myself.

 

[marshallma0504]

If you don't have a big noticeable change in power while running likely the piston hasn't fragged a valve. Mechanical engine noises are a red flag. It could run for a year, month or a day depending on what's going on. I'd be worried about oz. of prevention vs pound of cure. There is no great cheap financial answer, only less bad... unless you are really good with wrenching on your vehicle

Yeah the rhythmic chattering makes me think a guide broke from the chain slapping it and now it’s hitting the timing cover when it’s cold. Also could be VCT solenoids are plugged and/or failing since this car has gone through both turbos in the last 50k miles of its life. However when I replaced the front turbo last week the oil had no sparkles and no coolant in it so at least I have that going for me. But I am on borrowed time and I know that. Just trying to scrape the money together because a shop is out of the question right now

 

[marshallma0504]

Sorry for the rant just trying to show I know the dangers and am working on the solution.

 

[kryptto]

Sorry for the rant just trying to show I know the dangers and am working on the solution.

dont appologize, all good - we are here.

 

[luigisho]

Good luck. These things are money pits and not what I would recommend for budget conscious daily drivers. Too many complex systems to keep up without a pile of money or substitute for time to do the work.

 

[marshallma0504]

Good luck. These things are money pits and not what I would recommend for budget conscious daily drivers. Too many complex systems to keep up without a pile of money or substitute for time to do the work.

Yeah sadly I knew that going into the platform but I thought I scored a good deal only had paid $6,600 for the car. After $400 brakes and $700 for turbo and about $250 for plugs and fluids etc. and now over $1,000 for all the timing components I don’t think I got a good deal anymore lol

 

[marshallma0504]

I’ve always been drawn to these cars since I was in high school just because of how they were not that well known a few years ago as being powerful, comfortable and great looking because a lot of people didn’t know what these cars are capable of even in their stock form so I traded reliability for a little bit of fun (and a lot of headaches) and I get some wrenching experience along the way, and I have learned a lot about turbocharge platforms in the process. I like the car a lot just hope it doesn’t keep eating holes in my pockets in the next 20-30k miles before I decide to sell it in the next couple years.