smokin joe
SHO Member
Yeah Im going to stick with the Amsoil ATF that I have been running in my other transmissions, Thanks for everyones input and thanks for the pics Sam!!
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SHOtime2511
CGP
anyone have data on temps that occur in MTXs?
anyone have trans temp gauges?
anyone have trans temp gauges?
SHOspazz92
Banned
So Far, I've changed the Trans Fluid Twice, Just to keep keep me in the Habit. On some of the VERY tight sections of Auto-X Courses (Especially the Longer, 80 Second Courses) after a few back to back runs, I've had the Trans Temps jump up pretty high! I drove a open diff SHO at a Auto-X event not to long ago...my god....I could not believe it! (Spin Fest from ****) It also showed me what a workout Auto-X gives a Quaife that's installed in a SHO.
Yes, The Trans generally stays at about 180* For me. However, During a Few Auto-X's (Longer Courses) I've had it Jump up to 205-10 Before!
-Sam
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drivinhard
New Member
195-205* was about the norm cruising down the hwy
my gauge went to 265 and I could usually peg it in the summer in 4-5 laps at road atlanta. never had a problem with shift quality though (by overheating), I usually changed the fluid pretty often.
SHOtime2511
CGP
wow i had no idea fluid got that hot in MTXs.
K-Dawg
SHO Member
Yeah, I remember riding with Sergio at the Memphis convention. His trans temp gauge was pegged after a few laps.
No you didn't . . . it just all puked its way out the vent (even on those late October /cooler weather events)
gmorrell
Never been a noob...
Many years ago, as I was in on the first SHOShop Quaife group buy, my first road course outing with the Quaife was the now defunct 4.5 mile long course at Denver's Ex-Stapleton Airport - big high-speed course, lots of fast sweepers, several 2nd gear turns, this course got lots of Quaife action.
Trans got to over 265F (sensor in the fluid, front wall of the trans case), the synchros got mighty unhappy.
Put in a Tilton pump and cooler, it stays below 220F on road courses now.
Here's the trans scavenge line with an in-line trash filter to the pump inlet.
Here's the pump on the subframe.
I have a pic of the coolers around here somewhere, here it is. PS on the left, oil in the middle, trans on the right.
Trans got to over 265F (sensor in the fluid, front wall of the trans case), the synchros got mighty unhappy.
Put in a Tilton pump and cooler, it stays below 220F on road courses now.
Here's the trans scavenge line with an in-line trash filter to the pump inlet.
Here's the pump on the subframe.
I have a pic of the coolers around here somewhere, here it is. PS on the left, oil in the middle, trans on the right.
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smokin joe
SHO Member
Thanks for the pics of your set up! It looks really nice. I know a lot of factory racing teams say that they change trans fluid as much as engine oil. Because it is just as important if not more, because it gets so hot and isnt filtered at all. Granted that’s with purely race cars they are talking about, but it does show how important trans fluid changes are, especially if you do race at road courses, Auto-x ect, and expose your fluid to extended periods of high temperature.
SHOMurph
Ford B@stard
Good call....going with amsoil in tranny and oil in my SC car. Tony is now a supplier.
DeaconBlue
SHO Member
Actually the Quaife is the only thing that survived out of that transmission!
Just last week I final got the Quaife back for being inspected and refurbished from the factory authorized service center. They installed new helical pinions under warranty due to surface pitting. I was pushing the car pretty good at NHMS and the Quaife was working very hard which resulted in a very hot transmission. The ring gear bolts back out and what we were left with was two destroyed trany case halves and a gear set that was turned into a pile of junk. Pretty scary pictures.
The key is using a high quality fluid, keeping it cool and changing it often if you run on the track. My mistake was not installing the external fluid pump and cooling loop. I used a very high quality Redline AFT, but like any other fluid it can only take so much heat and abuse.
Just last week I final got the Quaife back for being inspected and refurbished from the factory authorized service center. They installed new helical pinions under warranty due to surface pitting. I was pushing the car pretty good at NHMS and the Quaife was working very hard which resulted in a very hot transmission. The ring gear bolts back out and what we were left with was two destroyed trany case halves and a gear set that was turned into a pile of junk. Pretty scary pictures.
The key is using a high quality fluid, keeping it cool and changing it often if you run on the track. My mistake was not installing the external fluid pump and cooling loop. I used a very high quality Redline AFT, but like any other fluid it can only take so much heat and abuse.
baySHO_510
**** It broke!!
I use Redline D4... I take my SHO to the 1/4 mile track every now and then but I don't think I push my trans hard enough that it needs a cooler. If I ever start autocrossing though it's gonna be first on my list.
I would like to see the pictures of the destruction.
So you believe that the ring gear bolts backing out caused all the destruction?
Do you think they backed out due to the extreme temperatures? Were your ring gear nuts the nylon locking type?
So I just picked up a quaifed trans for.......
In my opnion, it all depends on what YOUR perticular tranny likes.
I have tried almost every fluid under the sun with good and bad results.
DeaconBlue
SHO Member
The fasteners used were from one of the last Ford installation kits. This is the first known failure of this type. There are many SHO’s out there putting more power to the wheels than mine and that have seen more track time than mine so well. There is Loctite visible on the threads and we believe that the bolts were torqued correctly - but are not 100% sure. The Quaife had been in the car for several years and had 35K miles on it. So it wasn’t likely that the bolts were under torqued or the failure would have happened much earlier. The bolts could have been over torqued and though many heat cycles they could have lost their clamping load. All we know for sure is that the nuts backed off and the bolt’s threads were hammered pretty badly or broken due to the rotational movement between the ring gear and differential. The heads of the bolts ground against the inside of the trany case and eventually wedged themselves in there, windowing the case and locking up the trany.
Luckily I was going about 5mph though the pits when the final failure occurred. Jim had his in car camera video that captured the event up on YouTube. KirkD had the 40 plus pictures of the remains of the MTX on his website from when he and Chris opened her up. There was even a broken shifter folk in there. The final drive gears were hammered badly – that could be due to the added drag of the bolt heads “machining” their way though the trany case. I am sure we also did some added damage rocking the car to move her up and onto the trailer.
The unit got VERY hot. The shaft end bearings will not stay in their respective bores in the case halves anymore. The gears do not show any sign of bluing so this was not a fluid failure due to using the wrong type of fluid. Speaking of the fluid although is was filled with metal shaving it too showed signs of being over heated due to it’s color change. One other thing for sure is that I will be installing an external pump and cooling loop on the Quaifed MTX that is in the car now before the next track day.
I was just darn lucky to have this kind of failure when and where I did and to have so many friends there to help me out. Ten minutes earlier and I would have been thundering down the front straight at speed, an hour later and I would have been driving down I93 in the rain with three lanes of rush hour traffic.
Luckily I was going about 5mph though the pits when the final failure occurred. Jim had his in car camera video that captured the event up on YouTube. KirkD had the 40 plus pictures of the remains of the MTX on his website from when he and Chris opened her up. There was even a broken shifter folk in there. The final drive gears were hammered badly – that could be due to the added drag of the bolt heads “machining” their way though the trany case. I am sure we also did some added damage rocking the car to move her up and onto the trailer.
The unit got VERY hot. The shaft end bearings will not stay in their respective bores in the case halves anymore. The gears do not show any sign of bluing so this was not a fluid failure due to using the wrong type of fluid. Speaking of the fluid although is was filled with metal shaving it too showed signs of being over heated due to it’s color change. One other thing for sure is that I will be installing an external pump and cooling loop on the Quaifed MTX that is in the car now before the next track day.
I was just darn lucky to have this kind of failure when and where I did and to have so many friends there to help me out. Ten minutes earlier and I would have been thundering down the front straight at speed, an hour later and I would have been driving down I93 in the rain with three lanes of rush hour traffic.
Sam didn't run the lines!!! I did.
I think I have several photos of the cooler installation on Sam's car. If anyone still needs them, PM me.
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jedhead
New Member
Wow both my tranny failures were due failing bearings. The first failure was the bearing on the main shaft. Second time the bearing on the diff failed, I believe because the diff was not shimmed properly Both times the Quaife survived. This last tranny I helped rebuilt and used new bolts, nuts and locktite. All the bearings were replaced. I also bought an used Josh's shim selector tool. I still have one more rebuild kit for just in case.
Bob
Bob
I’ve been running Castrol Multi-Vehicle Domestic ATF for the past year or so on the street with a handful of track events thrown in. I’ve used Mobil 1 and the generic ATF in the past and I think the Castrol has the best shift feel in my car. No problems during or after events and the fluid never has that burnt look when I change it.
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SHOspazz92
Banned
Sam didn't run the lines!!! I did.
I think I have several photos of the cooler installation on Sam's car. If anyone still needs them, PM me.
Exactly. I just reaped the Benifits. Altho, I think the Pump is no longer working.
-Sam
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