Won't Start

[naval-avi8or]

Finally got my SHO to the point where I can start it and all it will do is crank.

I got one slight attampt if you want to call it that and nothing since.

I found the Cam sensor had come unplugged and reconnected it and still NOGO. I noticed that the tach doesn't register while cranking. All my knowledge is with the GEN II. Should the tach reg while cranking. If so does it indicate the Cam sensor or Crank sensor is inop.

I do have fuel cause I've flooded it several times while troubleshooting.

Here's the back ground on the motor. It was pulled from a 97SHO and was running when pulled. After removal I had the cams welded, replaced all the bearings and reshimmed the valves.

Only DTC is P1000

Thanks In Advance
Curtis

 

[naval-avi8or]

Update:

Just got thru removing and drying the frount four plugs. Cranked it and verified that at least those four plugs are firing.

When reassembling the motor I did time it as per the FORD manual. I had posted some concerns that after initial alignment that I rotated the motor several times and could not seem to get them to realign. Someone posted that it would/could take many revolutions and that I should be alright.

When cranking there are no unusual noises like valves and pistons meeting.

 

[nik97]

Behind the RH side splash guard, near your'e crank pully, is the crank sensor. Make sure it is clean and has a good connection. The engine will not start without it as it will with the cam sensor disconnected. The tach signal is generated by the VRS crank signal. Therefore, there is an open or a bad connection somewhere from the sensor to the PCM. P1000 only means that all the diagnostic monitors have not been completed. This will clear after a full drive cycle.

Let me know what you find

*EDIT* You where posting at the same time. If you have spark, you have a crank signal. Did you remove the timing chains?....exciter ring orientation?

 

[SHOZ123]

Might be flooded due to no compression because of limited oil on the cylinder wall. Floor it and crank it for 30 seconds or so.

 

[naval-avi8or]

Might be flooded due to no compression because of limited oil on the cylinder wall. Floor it and crank it for 30 seconds or so.

I've been cranking it all day long. I initaily cranked it to get the oil flowing prior to attempteing to start it.

I'm thinking that the gas might be bad, or just a slight timing issue hopfully the first. I know on my 94 there was a jumper wire to force the fuel pump to run, is there a jumper on the 97. I would make draining the gas much eaiser.

How does the pats system operate. I'm thinking it prevents the starter from operating. Just want to rule everything out.

If it is the timing can it be checked without droping the motor back out the bottom.

I'm moving at the end of May and got to get this thing running so I don't have to push it to CA from MS. I'm in to deep to throw in the towel so if I can't get it going I'll have to tow it (Wife will **** me).

 

[naval-avi8or]

Well I attempted to start it with a little squirt of starting fluid to see if it would try and run. NO LUCK. So I thingk I've ruled out the bad gas.

It did however belch back out the breather and I noticed that the intake runners were slightly warm to the touch after cranking earlier.

So it looks like I will have to open it back up and attempt to re time it. I know it has to come out (partially to time it but is it possible to check it prior to removing it to make sure.

 

[nik97]

Be sure to check that crank sensor tone ring. As I understand, the same ring is used on the duratec 2.5s and 3.0s and has 2 keyways. Also Ford's exploded views of the assembly can show a generic orientation while the written instrucions are correct.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Curtis, sorry I don't have the time to give you more diagnostic info, but checking the timing can be done pretty easily. Just pull both valve covers and the RF wheel, lift the splash shield to get to the crank pulley, rotate it so the hash mark lines up with the 0 on the timing cover. Then check the dimples on all 6 sprockets which should all be above the flats on the cam journal caps (note that you may have to rotate the crank another 360 degrees to get the cams to rotate 180 degrees to get the dimples to the top, and the dimples won't be perfectly centered over the flats on the caps). A dental mirror and small flashlight may help you see the dimples.

Also, depending on when your motor was made, it could have had one of two different crank trigger wheels. Did yours have 2 keyways? It's possible that could have been installed in the 3.0L Duratec keyway which could explain spark but no fire.

Last, PATS will allow cranking, but if the theft light blinks while cranking that indicates a PATS problem.

Hope that helps!

PS on the V8 the tach does not register while cranking.

 

[naval-avi8or]

Be sure to check that crank sensor tone ring. As I understand, the same ring is used on the duratec 2.5s and 3.0s and has 2 keyways. Also Ford's exploded views of the assembly can show a generic orientation while the written instrucions are correct.

Thanks for the advice. You wouldn't happen to have the info/directions (or know where to find them) that you could email me. I'm working from the FORD service CD and all that it really has is the timing chain exploded veiw and one small step about that tone ring that says align the key way.

 

[naval-avi8or]

OK here's were I'm at now. Got the cam covers off and spun it around to check the upper six timing marks and they all look good. couldn't find any mark on the harmonic ballancer I stuck a screwdriver down #1 and it seams to be TDC. Pulled the harmonic ballancer off and can see that stinken tone ring and it does have a second key way 180 degs out. I'm betting that's my problem as several have suggested.

Just put 6.5 qts of oil in this thing, can I pull that cover off with out draining it. I can see where the cover attaches to the top of the oil pan, just not sure where the oil level normaly comes up to.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Yes, you can pull the timing cover without draining the oil.

In order to remove the timing cover in the car, you'll need to remove the nuts securing both motor mounts to the subframe, and use a jack with a block of wood under the oil pan in order to raise the motor enough to allow removal of the long bolt securing the idler pulley closest to the A/C compressor.

Are you sure the second keyway is 180 degrees opposite the one you're using now? I want to say the separation is more like 170 degrees which would make it easier to determine if it's installed correctly or not. In any case, if you'd like I can take pix of one on Monday to see if that will help you determine how it's oriented before removing the timing cover.

 

[naval-avi8or]

Yes, you can pull the timing cover without draining the oil.

In order to remove the timing cover in the car, you'll need to remove the nuts securing both motor mounts to the subframe, and use a jack with a block of wood under the oil pan in order to raise the motor enough to allow removal of the long bolt securing the idler pulley closest to the A/C compressor.

Are you sure the second keyway is 180 degrees opposite the one you're using now? I want to say the separation is more like 170 degrees which would make it easier to determine if it's installed correctly or not. In any case, if you'd like I can take pix of one on Monday to see if that will help you determine how it's oriented before removing the timing cover.

Well I just got the cover off and out of the engine bay. Bad news is I missed one cover bolt and snapped the ear off :cry: the cover prying it lose. It was the one just above the acc belt tentioner (not behind). I just totally over looked it. I didn't have to lift the motor at all I guess I may have more room than I thought. For those who may have mised my post way back this is a project SHO. It's a 94 ATX and I'm in the process of putting all 97SHO engine tranny and much more into it. The subframe, engine and tranny have been the easy part. The rest will be the hard work due to relocation of items. If I have to drive it around on a 5 gal bucket to get it to CA I will.

 

[naval-avi8or]

UPDATE:

NEWS FLASH

Got it back together and she fired right up and perrrrrrrssssss like a kitten.

And you guys were right on it was the tone ring.

hind sight 20/20 I would have removed the crank shaft key and turned the tone ring then reinserted the key. This would have eliminated alot of work and a broken cover.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Curtis

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Glad to hear it Curtis!

Did you find another timing cover? If not, give us a call on Monday, we've got a bunch of them.

 

[naval-avi8or]

Glad to hear it Curtis!

Did you find another timing cover? If not, give us a call on Monday, we've got a bunch of them.

I repaired it with JB weld. Who knows how long that will last. I sent you an email in regards to the offer. If you don't/didn't recieve it could you emial me

[email protected]

Thanks
Curtis

 

[Paul]

I am experiencing a hard start problem currently. I have a dtc#0715 imrc stuck open for whatever reason. I don't know if its related or not. We'll see in a few days. During crank up I get no tach reading. Is it possible the tach is shut down during cranking as are most other accessories? A shot of eyther and it fired right up. This engine is 210000 old.

 

[naval-avi8or]

During crank up I get no tach reading. Is it possible the tach is shut down during cranking as are most other accessories?

Paul,

I was informed that the V-8 tach will not registar during cranking/starting.