Weirdest issue ever. 99 SHO

[1989Sho30]

Found a fairly nice 99 SHO on craigslist the guy only wanted $500 for... Decided ****, could be worth it. Guy claims he thinks the timing chain snapped in it... Said he started it up one day and then it died and acted like it didn't have compression after that.

Well, We get it home home and for ***** and giggles decided to try to turn it over.... While it did sound like it didn't have any compression / firing... after trying a few times the damn thing started up! It smoked a little but ran great, Didn't make any funny noises, didn't knock nor was it ticking...

So may I ask... What the **** kind of issue was this? My thought was that it got itself so starved ov fuel that it just wasn't firing and made it sound like it was lack of compression? Maybe a valve got stuck?

Still doesn't explain why it suddenly "died" and acted like it had no compression... Then we get it home, try to start it and after a while it does... and runs and drives fine!

Should I be worried? Perhaps it is a cam failure imminent?

 

[98SF19]

Sounds like you may have gotten a steal. Did previous owner say whether it was welded? So it just didn't start one day and he dumps it for $500? I guess he was wrong about the chain.

 

[Devin]

Definitely confirm that the cams were welded. Otherwise, nice!

 

[stephen newberg]

As noted by the two prior posts, you need to confirm that the cam sprockets have been welded and between now and figuring that out, you should stop running the engine. If it has already slipped once and then shifted back into position so it is running properly, it will slip much more easily the next time and likely further, which often means a dead engine. So, you need to pull the front valve cover and check for welds holding the sprockets in place on the cams. You can do this yourself at home or you can get it towed to a shop. If the fronts are done, you still need to confirm that the backs have been done too, as from what we have heard here on this site, sometimes some people apparently only do the easy to get to ones. If the fronts are not done, obviously the backs will not be either.

Good save. We hope.

pax, smn

 

[sperold]

Maybe the gear on the cam only moved enough to confuse the diagnostic system and cause the stall. But not enough for the valves to kiss the pistons.
It is just barely within the realm of possibility, but I would get the valve covers off to confirm welding, and that includes the rear one.
Good find, even if you have to swap some cams.

 

[1989Sho30]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Turns out it was also a bogus connection to the battery... I should have figured, Because it was so badly corroded I'm surprised it made contact at all! Cleaned it off, and jumped it... My dad said it started right up no issue!

He did say it had trouble going into reverse though, That it seemed like it didn't engage and he had to give it gas and then it jumped into reverse quite... harshly.

The fluid does NOT look or smell burned at all, A little dark, but does not smell bad at all! Maybe needs a change?

 

[1989Sho30]

Sounds like you may have gotten a steal. Did previous owner say whether it was welded? So it just didn't start one day and he dumps it for $500? I guess he was wrong about the chain.

From the sounds of it, It started and just died and wouldn't restart. When we first tried it, It was super slow and did sound like it had no compression... But later found out it's because it wasn't getting enough juice and turning the engine fast enough.

Good thing we didn't try to jump it at their house! And no, They didn't say anything about them being welded. I don't think the guy knew what he had

 

[98SF19]

Nice. At this point in a gen 3's life, even a 99, a tranny rebuild is common. This gives you the opportunity to have the shift kit installed and maybe even a Gen 2 tranny cooler (useful in deep south summers) which you could do anytime after the rebuild. If it won't be a daily driver (i.e. if fuel costs won't be a concern) check out the aftermarket torque converters. I think SHOsource may be the only place selling them, and I haven't heard any feedback on them. Down side of this is that it would probably void any tranny rebuild warranty you'd get and the SHO isn't really well-suited to a higher-than-stock stall TC anyway (bad enough that the factory press fit of cam sprockets was insufficient). If you can't tell, I'm reliving those high yet unattainable hopes I had in the weeks before I got my trans rebuilt. I ultimately said NO to the aftermarket TC, and YES to a lifetime warranty.

 

[1989Sho30]

Nice. At this point in a gen 3's life, even a 99, a tranny rebuild is common. This gives you the opportunity to have the shift kit installed and maybe even a Gen 2 tranny cooler (useful in deep south summers) which you could do anytime after the rebuild. If it won't be a daily driver (i.e. if fuel costs won't be a concern) check out the aftermarket torque converters. I think SHOsource may be the only place selling them, and I haven't heard any feedback on them. Down side of this is that it would probably void any tranny rebuild warranty you'd get and the SHO isn't really well-suited to a higher-than-stock stall TC anyway (bad enough that the factory press fit of cam sprockets was insufficient). If you can't tell, I'm reliving those high yet unattainable hopes I had in the weeks before I got my trans rebuilt. I ultimately said NO to the aftermarket TC, and YES to a lifetime warranty.

Why are the transmissions in these cars... So crappy? It seems like very few can make it to 100k miles without issue.... 150k is when most seem to die.

It just isn't the SHOs, it's the regular model Taurus too. Even if the transmission was serviced regularly (every 40k miles?) it seems like they just have a really crappy lifespan...

 

[stephen newberg]

The problems with the transmission on these cars seem, IMO, to mainly deal with how they have been driven. The Gen III is often treated as if it were a I/II at the stop lights at more frequent points in its life than the designers ever expected, considering they thought they were designing a highway cruiser to compete with 3 series BMWs of the time. As a result, there are failures.

But it is also worth remembering that you are looking at a chunk of machinery with a lot of moving and friction oriented parts, and the youngest Gen III is now 15 years on the road. It is simply not rational to expect something to still be working like new at that point.

Additionally, and you can find threads on this if you look about, many people get fine mileage out of their transmissions. Mine is at over 200K and still runs without any problem. Lots of other uses have similar situations. Its mainly about what has been done to the car and its transmission over the years, as far as I can tell from what people have reported.

pax, smn

 

[NebraskaSHO]

The Gen III was always a great sounding car. With that, it might cause you to romp on it a little more than necessary. I installed a Gen II ATX cooler in 2006 on mine at about 100k and drove it up to about 150-160. I had Borla mufflers, but never confused the car as a drag racer.

Sold it in 2011 to an 18 year old former student, and within 3 months he puked the transmission.

 

[stephen newberg]

Yes, I have heard that sort of tale a few of times over the years, and it is partly what leads me to conclude that the life expectancy of the transmission revolves around how the car is driven considerably more than any other factor.

pax, smn

 

[Shaggy23x]

Hello,

i have a 99 sho
the car has 120,000 on it
the other day i was driving the car and it just stalled out at 30mph.
i couldn't get it to restart. no check engine lights, car was running great.
i have replaced c.o.p.'s, spark plugs motor craft at 118,000 front and back
i have just replaced cam sensor, crank sensor,fuel filter and new battery.
the car only starts when gas is too the floor and runs smooth at 2500rpm. and then dies under 2500rpm.
the fuel pump turns on, i have proper psi at fuel rail and i have put gas treatment in tank.
I NEED HELP Please..

 

[SHOdded]

Any fuel smell when you start the car? Sounds like there is a possibility of leaky injectors, because when you start with the pedal to the floor, you are cutting off fuel flow.

 

[Shaggy23x]

i dont smell any fuel when starting. so the injectors are bad?

 

[SHOdded]

Leaky/stuck injectors were a definite possibility on the Gen 1/2, don't know for sure on Gen 3. Any codes? How did the plugs look when you pulled them? Did they look like they were carboned up, or wet with fuel, or running lean?

 

[Shaggy23x]

oooohhh i see. no codes now but before it died i had a bad 02 sensor code. they were original. they were pretty nasty... i drove the car 2k miles with new spark plugs and then it died

 

[SHOdded]

Did you replace the O2 sensors also then? I guess you'd have 4 to change what with OBD2. Were all your part updates BEFORE the nostart problem appeared?

Could be looking at vacuum leaks/pinched wiring. If the TPS is acting up (check voltage), that could do it. Or an issue with the butterflies (IMRC solenoid). This thread may help a bit:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t639367-discuss1998_taurus_sho_wont_start.html

You say the fuel pressure is good at the rail, though? How much? How does the fuel pressure hold up after shutoff? If it drops rapidly, may be looking at a fuel regulator issue. On the Gen 1/2, the diaphragm could rupture, leaking fuel into the vacuum line.

A lot of info here on Gen 3 SHOs, a lot to go through, but invaluable:
http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/carenfeeding.html

 

[Shaggy23x]

no i didn't, 4 of the o2 sensors? just the C.O.P and spark plugs before it died. i change the other things based on what i read on other forms. checked the wiring on the motor didnt find anything. what is a TPS? are the butterflies part of intake?

i checked the psi at rail when off and thats when it tested good. i will have to check out the regulator.

Thank you for the info so far.

 

[SHOdded]

You said you got an O2 code, right? So I assumed you replaced the sensors. Service tips

From RockAuto:
NTK Part # 22500 {#22109} NTK OE Type
Upstream Right; NTK is Original Equipment
Downstream Left; NTK is Original Equipment
Upstream Left; NTK is Original Equipment
Downstream Right; NTK is Original Equipment

TPS = throttle position sensor

The butterflies are part of the intake manifold, and when stock, they open at around 3,000 rpm via the IMRC solenoid for better high-speed performance.