Weird brake issue

[rcryniak]

Just noticed recently that hitting the brakes HARD, even if not going fast, like at a 3 way stop and someone doesn't wait for me to turn when I don't have a stop sign... that the brakes get really tight and hard to push, and noticeably less effective. Normal braking under normal conditions remains unaffected. Only when I have to press them hard and suddenly. Any thoughts?

 

[SHOdded]

Failing brake booster (bad check valve) would be my primary guess. Much lower probability is a swollen/obstructed brake line. They don't get a chance to adjust with sudden movements, but do when you ease into it.

 

[rcryniak]

I see on FordParts.com they have a brake booster and check value under brake hardware - would you replace the entire assembly, or just the check valve?

 

[SHOdded]

Get the booster assembly. Better in the long run.

 

[EcoBoostSHO]

I had a hose to my brake booster pop off and had similar symptoms. At least check them first if you haven't already.

 

[rcryniak]

I'll check - just need to see a few diagrams first so I know what I'm looking at. I think it might be time I shelled out for the Ford service manual CD-ROM?

 

[rcryniak]

OK, so I had my car up on jack stands today to do my first oil change ever (woot!) and inspected the brakes and such while I was there. A few items of concern, there's a LOT of rust on the rotors... they're shiny where the pads hit, but just growing buckets of rust everywhere else. I could clearly make out the 10mm min for the rear discs, but the front discs had no identifying marks ANYWHERE. Not even on the edge. I presume they're there... just covered in rust. Anyhow, so my measurements are 29.31 mm for the most worn of the front rotors, and 10.92 mm for the most worn of the rear rotors. Not sure what the front minimums are, but the backs are 0.92 mm away from "holy crap replace it immediately" I suppose. Not sure how to interpret that. The pads showed clear signs of wear, from 4mm to 6mm. I've seen 3mm as the replacement line, not sure though.

Anyhow, I also noticed on one of the pads, a piece looks like it's missing? Anyone with any thoughts on the missing piece, the rust, or my measurements?? Time to just fork out everything for new brakes and rotors?? Is it easy DIY? So many questions!!

 

[SHOdded]

A video HOWTO on changing rotors/pads (general):

You will need a special tool (rent from AutoZone/Advance Auto/etc) to turn the piston in the rear calipers, they are not pushins. The fronts are pushins.

You should also clean & grease the slide pins:

 

[SHOdded]

Rear brakes:

 

[rcryniak]

So, you're telling me that it's time for a change? lol... looking forward to watching those when I get done with work.

 

[SHOdded]

I'm not telling you anything, your SHO's the whisperer here

 

[rcryniak]

lol... well, I can't say I'm comfortable with the level of wear or how it feels, so I say it's time even if I'd pass inspection (not sure if I would though, IDK.)

Anyhow, have any recommendations on pads/rotors? If I go stockers, how do I know which pads to get since I have PP? Aren't they diff. pads than non-PP? Or if another brand than Motorcraft is better, I'm open to recommendations.

 

[SHOdded]

My recommendation, if you want to follow the leaders , is to get yourself the EBC slotted (or plain if you MUST) rotors with EBC yellowstuff (bpd) or redstuff (many others) combo all round. Day in, day out performance on the street or strip. Not heavy duty autox though.

You can also go with a Power Stop kit, or OEM rotors & EBC pads.

Take the opportunity to flush the old brake fluid, OEM fluid is fine, but you can find better options if you want them. ATE, Motul, Brembo, Wilwood, among others.

===========

Another major upgrade would be from the 2013+ parts bin (master cylinder, brake booster), but a bit more involved:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,609.0.html

Don't know if the 2013+ PP calipers would fit, haven't seen anyone try that successfully yet. Probably need the rotors & pads to go with.

 

[SHOrod]

In the image the area you circled appears to be the chamfer of the friction material. That's not a problem, it's there to help avoid noisy brakes by chamfering the leading (and trailing) edges.

-Rod

 

[rcryniak]

Ahhh... that is definitely good to know, thanks Rod. I think I'll still get new pads regardless - but only because measurements indicated "soon" anyhow. (I used a pad measuring device, only one was green, one or two others in the yellow at 4mm or so.) Unless of course, if 4mm = 5,000 to 10,000 miles to go, with comfort. But somehow I doubt that?

 

[rcryniak]

My recommendation, if you want to follow the leaders , is to get yourself the EBC slotted (or plain if you MUST) rotors with EBC yellowstuff (bpd) or redstuff (many others) combo all round. Day in, day out performance on the street or strip. Not heavy duty autox though.

You can also go with a Power Stop kit, or OEM rotors & EBC pads.

OK, so I shopped around quite a bit, and found out that EBC kits are way, WAY more expensive than Power Stop kits. Found a 4 wheel PS kit for $340 IIRC. That's close to OEM price. So, question is... are Power Stop any better than OEM? If so, by how much? I've not Autocrossed the car, and currently have all OEM hardware, and until recently felt good about how well they worked for me. (Light years ahead of my last Taurus, a 2004... had brakes softer than a pillow.)

Anyhow, since I don't autocross... if Power Stop are better than OEM, then I'm happy with that. Even if I did Autocross, cutting the life down in half might be OK since they're half the cost lol. However, if they're kinda crappy, not quite OEM quality, then I will give much, much more consideration to the EBC kits, even if they are much more expensive. I'm not cheap, just occasionally frugal. So, bottom line, are Power Stop Z23 Evolution Sport any good??

Also, why the objection to "plain" rotors? I've been doing a TON of reading and YouTube watching over the past few days, and it seems cross-drilled and slotted rotors, once really beneficial for heat and sweeping away brake dust, etc., also leave the rotors weaker than plain "OEM style" rotors - and some claim that modern brakes don't really need slots or holes at all - that it's really just ornamental at the expense of wear and tear... so what's the deal? Any good hard data to support slotted and/or cross-drilled rotors these days?

 

[SHOdded]

IMHO & IME, Power Stop kits ARE better than OEM, but since they are slotted AND cross-drilled, best use is for the street and an occasional flight down the strip. THey are indeed a budget-friendly option. They work quite well, esp on hard braking.

Also, I would advise that you use some hi-temp paint like VHT 1200 or even 2000 to clearcoat the hubs and the vanes. (There's a HOWTO on the corvette forums if you are interested.) I do see surface rust on the hubs forming, and you guys get worse winters than us.

EBC is a sizeable step up in price, but ALSO in quality/braking results. They are worth the money.

If you can do the master cylinder/booster upgrade from the 13+, you will really nail it at the tarmac warping games.

Plain or slotted work very well. xDrilled rotors - depends on the manufacturing process. If they come out of the mold that way, then you won't have problems even with autox. If they create the blank, then drill into them, better make sure the rotors are HIGH CARBON material at the very least. Something like a StopTech kit would be better in that instance.

 

[bpd1151]

Although I've upgraded to the big brake Wilwood's (for obvious reasons).....

You'd be remiss by going with anything less than the EBC's.

You get what you pay for.

Enough said.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[rcryniak]

Fair enough, so clearly the EBCs are way better than the PowerStops - however - are PowerStops as good as OEM? Since there will be only DD type driving through the winter, I'm not sure now is the right time to go with something particularly high end.

Also - Wilwood... very nice! But how the heck did you swing that, I searched their site, and couldn't find a match for our cars. I assume there's another way to match, by size, etc? Just curious - I'm definitely NOT looking to spend $2,000+ on brakes. I'm not quite there yet lol. I may be at some point, but my newbie ways are still leaning towards the frugal.

 

[SHOnUup4]

From the mouths of the experienced track guys...get smooth rotors (stock) and high quality (Hawk, Carbo tech) for road coursing.

I have EBC slotted with the red stuff pads. Work very good for every day driving and going to the dragway...but are not meant for road coursing. I literally melted them and my calipers.

Pic of the EBC slotted with red stuff

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk