Totally lost

[stevemainian]

Me and snoman had the same problem..

I replaced my O2 sensors and the problem went away.

Remeber these are older Fords. Bad o2's could cause bad idle or perhaps stalling. (now-a-day fords this usually would never happen)

 

[SonicRiot]

Huh?

How does he know this has happened without disassembling the engine? If he "knows" this has happened, he should know EXACTLY which hole is bad, PRIOR to disassembly. A simple compression test will show that. A Leakdown test will prove it. MOST catostrophic failures can be pinpointed or at least narrowed down with a good diagnosis, prior to complete disassembly.

I can't think of any test that would show that a piston has seperated from a rod, unless it's laying in the oil pan. In that event, it would have been a catostrophic failure... an obvious one. Again, a simple compression test would have shown that.

Not doubting anyone's expertise, but sounds like something's not being told...


P.S.: Just re-read the original post. Your car would turn over and make the worst noise you've ever heard if a piston was "seperating" from the rod. Think about this: the piston is held onto the rod by a LARGE pressed wrist pin. If it was seperating, the piston or rod would have to be broken. Just think of the noise you'd hear. I think you need more information or another opinion before you spend $1500 on this car.

 

[FAST4DR]

Personally, I reccomend full synth and Mobile1 is my personal favorite. It does not allow ANY wear (which is why it cannot be used as break-in or rebuild oil) and I think it is important in an older engine.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx

 

[SonicRiot]

OK, nice research, here's my rebuttle:

Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
Reality:


You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:
Aston Martin
Bentley Amage and Bentley GT
Cadillac CTS, XLR, SRX and STS
Chevrolet Corvette
Dodge Viper
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi EVO
Pontiac GTO
All Porsche vehicles
One of the myths that surrounds synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

Notice it says "brand new VEHICLES"?
NOT 'brand new ENGINES'

EVERY car on that list has a break-in PROIR to being installed in the vehicle. It has to. A company cannot place an engine in a car without ever being run because they cannot trust a customer to properly seat the rings and break in the engine. They can't offer a warranty and have the customer be the test pilot or initiate the first step of the engine's life.

Take Porsche for example. Every engine has a 1/2 hour break-in period with a break-in oil PRIOR to being installed in the car. Once installed in the vehicle, the oil is drained and Moble1 replaces the original oil. The car is then flogged on the streets of Germany for "testing" and suspension tuning and then driven or shipped to transport.

Ferrari has a similar procedure, in fact it's quite legendary and a tradition with EVERY Ferrari that is built.

BMW, AUDI, Mercedes, and VWs all have a similar procedure as well. In fact, VW VR6s come with GREEN oil in them. It is a break in oil that is made by Mobile. It is fully synthetic, but is not Mobile1 super-synth you buy at the store, but it can be mixed with it to top the engine off during a pre-delivery inspection.

I don't know why this has come up this thread. If it's a stab to challenge my post or what I may or may not know, then take it to pm and open a private, intellectual debate or conversation. I'm perfectly happy to discuss cars with anyone, especially those with something to offer. I've never claimed to know everything and I certainly hope I don't (because, boy, the world is F'd if I do!!).

But I'm just trying to help a guy out. If this mechanic was good at diagnosing engines, he would KNOW which hole is bad PRIOR to disassembly. It's not hard to do a compression test and use the customer's statements to back up a diagnosis.

This guy's got nothing in my book. Saying "there is SOMETHING seriously wrong wit the bottom end" is called "shooting fromthe hip." He should know what that SOMETHING is.

 

[FAST4DR]

Notice it says "brand new VEHICLES"?
NOT 'brand new ENGINES'

I don't know why this has come up this thread. If it's a stab to challenge my post or what I may or may not know, then take it to pm and open a private, intellectual debate or conversation. I'm perfectly happy to discuss cars with anyone, especially those with something to offer. I've never claimed to know everything and I certainly hope I don't (because, boy, the world is F'd if I do!!).

Well it does say brand new engines under the list of cars, but that is neither here nor there. It is from a biased opinion anyhow. The only reason I posted it is because snoman said about being a poor college student and he couldn't afford synthetic and you proceded to tell him that you can't use it for break in of a new engine. I simply disagreed and thought I would post so that he could have a different point of view. I wasn't trying to be a dick.

As for his engine, if it won't turn over or budge, then drop the pan and see what's up.

Will

 

[SonicRiot]

I get it. But still, using Mobil1 during the first start of a rebuilt or freshly built engine will not allow the rings to ever seat properly. The rings and cylinder hone must wear together for a while to prevent excess blow-by. That info was for consumers of new vehicles, not engine rebuilders.

Yeah, synth ain't cheap, but it saves money in the long run.

 

[Slo-Sho]

Taken from the link above:

One of the myths that surrounds synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

Notice it says "brand new VEHICLES"?
NOT 'brand new ENGINES'

Incorrect.

EVERY car on that list has a break-in PROIR to being installed in the vehicle. It has to.

I'm not doubting that car manufacters have these procedures and all you have listed are foreign automakers. Do any domestic car makers have these so called break-in procedures? I wonder how they break in the engines prior to installation? Is the motor put through its entire rpm range or does it just run at idle on a stand with their voodoo mystical break-in oil?

 

[SonicRiot]

Like I said, that info is for new vehicle consumers, not engine builders. The engines are already broken in.


Harley does not break-in their engines. The customer is given specific directions to help seat the rings. It says right in the owners manual of my Dad's new Sportster how to do it and NOT to switch to full synth until the breakin is doen.

It states that failure to properly break in the engine will fail to seat the rings well and the engine will not perform on par with other Harleys.

 

[AREA 91]

:wave: Snow man?

 

[snoman]

yes?.

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Getting back to snoman's problem, I also find it strange that a seperated connecting rod would cause the engine to lock up. Of course, if it's locked up, you won't be able to do a compression test (the engine's gotta spin to make compression).

I think a better possibility is a spun bearing that's allowing a little engine rotation but not full. SHO'a are known to spin bearings and maybe your time was up. As to whether or not you should replace the engine, I think that depends on what the rest of the car is like and how many miles are on it. There are a lot of SHO"s that can be bought in the $1500 price range, you might be better parting yours out and looking for another.

 

[SonicRiot]

You don't even have to do a compression test. Take off the timing belt and spin the cams until the valves are closed in a hole (each one, one at a time). Put shop air into the spark plug hole and listen for air leaking out. Where's it coming out? well there's the problem...

OR, he could have just pulled the oil pan and put a flashlight inside the crankcase and looked for obvious catastrophic failure.

Something isn't right. Get another opinion before dropping $1500 on your car with this guy.

 

[snoman]

I'm going to ask a few questions when I talk to him on mon., and my dad is calling up a few of my uncles that are mechanics to get their opinion. $1500 is pretty expensive when I started looking around at prices for engines and different SHOs. I've always wanted to get a mint AZ or CA car that I can baby and just use my current car as a parts car, but I don't have the $$ or a different car I can drive.

How expensive would it be to replace the bearings if that does end up being the problem? I just want to get a ballpark figure so I know what to expect and don't get taken to the cleaners. That's what I thought it might be when the problem first came up but didn't know any of the warning signs or symptoms.

 

[snoman]

I talked to the mechanic and asked a few questions. He thinks that its a rod separating from the piston head because it spins freely until a point, then it locks up. He said it probably wouldn't be a spun bearing because that would be hard to spin all around. A few times he was able to wiggle it a bit and get it to turn all the way around a couple time, but then it would lock up again. He pretty sure something is coming apart inside the engine.

Now we come to the part of me affording this. Either way it looks like he's going to have to pull the engine to fix it, and it looks like to me the more cost effective way would be to just replace the engine. The parts for repairing the engine may be cheaper than a whole engine, but the labor to fix it and put it back in will make it more expensive. Well, if I can find an almost mint, green '92 with tan interior for $1,500 or less I'll go with that. I'll be in Texas all next week, glavaston area, for spring break if anyone has one for sale. I just kinda want to get one outside of the rust belt, makes working on it that much easier.

Basically what it comes down it is I wish I had more money. :cry:

P.S. One other frustrating thing is I just put new suspension parts in this thing, and I really want to take it out and test them. :banghd:

 

[SonicRiot]

Does he think a pin is rubbing the cylinder bore or is the piston broken?

 

[snoman]

well, for all who still care (probably not many), I replaced the engine and will tear into the old one to see what went wrong soon. I just need to find some time inbetween work and school. If it's not too f-ed up, I may replace what's needed and make this engine a screamer. My little side toy. We'll see. Anywho, the engine runs fine, but I think the power steering pump may need a little work, sounds like I'm runnin about 6psi. Any suggestions are welcome, and thanks in advance.

 

[Kean_SHO]

snoman,
did you ever tear into the old motor?? I would be intrested to hear what you found.