Totally lost

[k_mesaros]

Just my $.02, but when I was taking my pressure plate off yesterday with a 3/8 ratchet and 10mm socket the engine was not helping me by being difficult to turn over. It was actually turning while I was breaking the bolts loose, and I had to turn it about a quarter turn for each bolt until it built up cylinder pressure and became hard enough to turn over for the bolts to loosen up.

Kevin

 

[SonicRiot]

Sorry if this is a thread hi-jack, but if you don't have an air ratchet or gun to break the bolts free, use two wrenches at 90 degrees or so. Squeeze together like you are doing a pectoral exercise.

There are flywheel/pressure plate tools availible, but are unnecessary unless those suckers are really cranked. In that case, get some air tools on the bolts.


Snoman... how'd you make out?

 

[SonicRiot]

Just my $.02, but when I was taking my pressure plate off yesterday with a 3/8 ratchet and 10mm socket the engine was not helping me by being difficult to turn over. It was actually turning while I was breaking the bolts loose, and I had to turn it about a quarter turn for each bolt until it built up cylinder pressure and became hard enough to turn over for the bolts to loosen up.

Kevin

BTW, this is normal. Remove the spark plugs and then try. You'll never break the bolts loose. The PP will just spin.

 

[snoman]

well, I haven't been able to work on her yet, but I was doing some reading, thinking and soul searching and I think I have a plausible idea of what the problem is. Let me know if I'm way off track or not, but here it goes.

I think that my DIS has gone **** and isn't allowing the engine to start. That's part one, the second one is that I think the spike that created the spark on the neg. battery terminal blew a fuse and now isn't letting the starter spin. I also think that the reason I can't move the engine by hand now has to do with the spark plugs being in and it being butt-cold here (MN-last few weeks have been highs below zero) making the oil the consistancy of chewed bubble gum. I'm going to check these things out and see if they are indeed the case. It also maybe a good idea to change the fuel filter eventually, but getting it running is first priority.

Also, is there a specific way of testing the DIS module or is it just one of those "hook it up to the ammeter and see if there's current" deal's? I really doubt the chilton's manual has anything about testing procedures.

Thanks for the help guys and/or gals. It's very apprieciated.

 

[SonicRiot]

Go to Pheonix Project SHO's site. There is a good procedure on testing the ignition system and DIS. Don't start throwing parts at it... diagnose them first.

As for the fuse, just pull out the fuses you think are blown.

And as for the oil, if it's that thick when it's cold that it's giving you trouble on startup, you are using the wrong oil. Switch to synthetic. It has hot properties at cold temps.

 

[snoman]

I was able to find the write up on testing the DIS and ignition system at phoenix's site. Someone have a hotlink maybe? I'm going to check it tonight, so maybe I can figure it out on my own. We'll see.

And synthetic would be nice, but I'm a poor college student with nothing but a part-time job so I can't afford synth yet.

 

[snoman]

Ok, well taking out the spark plugs didn't make it any easier to rotate the engine. We took off the timing belt and the cam sprockets move freely. We tested the clutch and that disengages like it should. We even pulled the crank sprocket almost all the way off to see if there was something behind it getting jammed. Even after all that it's impossible to rotate the engine beyond a certain point. :banghd: :banghd:

At the point where I'm about ready to put a gun in my mouth I'm going to say F-it and take it in. The guy that's letting me use his garage is going to talk to a buddy of his that has a shop and see if he wants to pick up the pieces. Hopefully this doesn't cost me the use of my kneecaps, but I need a car and don't have enough to buy a new one. damnit anyways.

 

[stevemainian]

dont use synthetic.

castrol gtx 10w-30 is the best to use, espically for the miles most SHO's have on them.

Take your car to a ford dealership. They will be the most efficent on telling you if your DIS is bad, which it probably is.

 

[SonicRiot]

dont use synthetic.

castrol gtx 10w-30 is the best to use, espically for the miles most SHO's have on them.

Take your car to a ford dealership. They will be the most efficent on telling you if your DIS is bad, which it probably is.

Steve, you must have a buttload of cash. At $60 an hour diagnostic, I'd buy a cheap DVOM and do it myself. Takes 15 minutes to diagnose if it's a component, wires and harnesses may take more time. Either way, Ford will charge too much for this. I'm a college student too, trust me, it's a lot.

As for Castrol GTX, it's part synthetic, thus containing regular dino oil. Dino oil does not flow as well when cold and does not prevent wear like full synth does. Personally, I reccomend full synth and Mobile1 is my personal favorite. It does not allow ANY wear (which is why it cannot be used as break-in or rebuild oil) and I think it is important in an older engine.

If the seals have been exposed to dino oil for over 100K miles or are leaking already or something like that, of course, stay with dino oil. Synth will just make the leaks worse or may not seal as well (worn out seals hold better with thicker, dino oil).

Mobil1 is used by a majority of manufacturers, especially European cars. The oil has been proven not to have viscosity breakdown until over 15K miles. In fact, Porsche, Audi, and VW scheduale services (oil changes) only every 15K miles!!! Unfortunately, they do not use Mobile1 oil filters, so the filters deteriorate before the oil change. Thus, we usually change the oil in the Porsches every 7500 miles and I believe Audi Reccomends the same.

If you use 6 QTs of Mobile1 over 15K miles and ONE Mobile1 synth oil filter, the price comes to about $40. Now price out dino... not that much more expensive, huh?

All I can say is that I use Mobile1 and the previous owner did the same. I can eat off of my camshafts and the crankcase is squeaky clean. From the filler cap hole, it looks like there was never even oil put in the engine its so clean.

Just stay away from Quaker State. Can you say carmelization and funky orange color? Bleach.

 

[snoman]

somehow I really doubt my engine not being able to rotate by hand has anything to do with the DIS even if it is bad (which it probably is). That is by far my biggest problem at this moment and is going to turn my hair gray when I'm only 22.

This is by far the most frustrating problem I've ever had to deal with. :banghd: I wish I had enough money to bring it to the shop that has a guy that specializes in SHO's, but he charges at least $85 an hour. A bit steep for me, although I know he'd be able to get the job done.

 

[Slo-Sho]

Put the car in 5th gear and turn the wheels...the crank should start to turn. Rotate the wheels backwards if you have to.

 

[Howdy_Doody]

This has got to be the most frustrating problems I've ever heard of. Why a simple change to the CPS would cause (what appears to be) an internal engine failure is beyond me.

Snoman, please don't make this any worse by letting this thread die. Let us know what the h*ll is finally causing the problem, even if it something embarassing. I'll bet I'm not the only one doing a lot of head scratching.

 

[SonicRiot]

You haven't done a leakdown and compression test, have you...?

 

[mopower]

I think you are getting a little too stressed about this sno. I know you are trying to trouble shoot this as best you can but I think taking the timing belt off and stuff is a little overboard. If the motor was running before and you didn't touch or break it, it will be fine. The car would not of jumped time and you would find a broken belt easy if you looked at it. Sounds to me if the starter is not turning over you need to look at if it is ok and if it is getting the power it needs. With everything powered off in the car, how bad do the terminals spark when you connect them to a fully charged battery? There should just be a small spark, no fire-shooting crazy sparks. I also would not have a reason to think the engine would not turn over, if the crank pulley is ok and clear, and you didn't drop anything in a spark plug hole you do not need to worry about it. I have turned the motor over with all the plugs in, it is not easy but it is also not impossible. Just takes a little grunt for a well size individual. Try the fifth gear trick.
If you are not getting big-moma crazy sparks when you connect the battery and you are sure the starter is good then just clean the terminals and maybe jump the car. If you are hearing a click you are getting some power to the starter, just not enough to turn it. (Big sparks mean you could have a short)
Did you try the use the starter to break the crank bolt method? That killed my starter and didn't loosen the bolt. I highly dis-advise this method, very un-professional.

 

[SonicRiot]

Little story my teacher told me:

A buddy of his answered an add in the classifieds for a Shelby 'Stang (this was in the 80's). The add said that the engine was seized. My teahcer went with his buddy to pick up the car. Upon looking at the vehicle, the friend got beneath the car with a wrench and whacked the starter. He then went around the car with the keys in hand, turned the ignition, and fired it up.

He drove away while the newly ex owner almost cried for giving the car away for a couple thousand bucks becuase he thought the motor was dead.

So two things: never condemn an engine without proof (dissasembly or visible, obvious damage) and make sure your starter hasn't seized and the flywheel is good.

Just something to keep in mind.


I still say stop what you are doing and perform a leakdown and compression test. It is nearly impossible to diagnose a car over the internet without such essential info.

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Snoman, did you ever figure anything out on your SHO?

 

[snoman]

I brought the car in last wed. evening and they said they'd get back to me when they had figured something out. I'm expecting a call either sometime today or tomorrow. I'll keep you guys updated when I am. I know a few people I've talked to around where I live are pretty intrigued with this problem, seems to be getting pretty popular. Hopefully it doesn't end in me just being a ***** and ruining the engine in someway, that would suck espcially with this much interest.

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Snoman, it's been a couple of weeks and wonder if you ever got to the bottom of what was wrong?

 

[AREA 91]

 

[snoman]

well, just got the phone call from the mechanic about an hour ago. He says it feels like to him that one of the rods has separated from the piston head. He doesn't know exactly which one, but he knows there's something seriously wrong in the bottom end.....awsome. :cry:

So he says he can get a used engine with 130,*** for $550 and it'll be about 12 hours labor. His estimate is around $1500 to replace it, less than I thought it was gonna be which is good. I really want to keep this car, but $1500 is pretty steep. I may be able to get my parents to help me, but I'm gonna be poor or a while. I think after I get this car fixed, if I do, I'm gonna be in the market for something small, cheap, and reliable for at least a winter car. I think I'm gonna see if I can get him to disassemble the old engine so I can sell some of the parts off and get some money back. I'm pretty sure the heads and cams are fine and maybe a few other things I can sell on ebay or something. We'll see. Anywho, that's the story for now, don't know exactly how it happened, but I'll ask the mechanic how he thinks it happened next time I talk to him.

Thanks for all your help guys, it was nice to be able to come back and get some different opinions.