%$#!@! Timing belt... tensioning help...

[NotSoSlowSHO]

this belt is giving me a heck of a workout. Im to the point where I can dissasemble the front of the motor blindfolded squint

I have tried tensioning the belt 3 times now. And the belt is still "wandering" and working itself off the cam gears squint

Help! Did I missread something?? What am I doing wrong?

The car is running excellent, so I know that I have timing correct.

Tensioning:

Crank it over a couple of times, then possition the crank @ 60 degrees before TDC. Then loosen nut on tensioner...

This is where I think Im screwing up. How much tension to I apply to the tensioner? Or do I just let the tensioner apply tension?

I tried just letting the tensioner do it's thing without any additional tension.

Then I tried adding a bit, same results.

SO I tried addiong a bit more...

And NOW I have nearly detroyed my middle timing cover because the belt ate a groove in it cuss

Somebody please shed some light...

 

[DavidT]

on Mark's 60K video, if I remember correctly, he says to load it with tension (and let it go?)... let it set itself. Wherever it rests... tighten it up.

<small>[ July 16, 2003, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: DavidT ]</small>

 

[Ishodu]

Once you got the timing belt on release the tensor leave the nut loose install the crank pulley and what not. Once you got the lower and mid cover on. Put the spare tire on if you have 96 brakes use the regular tire. Put the car in 5th gear. Turn the engine clockwise a few times then watch for the first mark on the crank pulley to line up with the 0 mark on the cover then open the window on the timing belt cover and tighten to bolt to spec. Thats all I did If I remember right someone else correct me if I am wrong please. Its been a few weeks since I had mine off.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

So I did it right the first time squint

And it still started working itself off the cam gears.

So how mush tension is the tensioner SUPPOSED to apply? Maybe mine is screwed up... or I didnt install it right...

 

[sdpatt]

The tension of the timing belt is not what is allowing it to wander on the pulleys. That is the job of the guide "washer" on the crankshaft that mounts on the exterior face of the crankshaft timing belt pulley, but inside the lower timing belt cover. The flare of the guide curves away from the belt and pulley to the outside. The sensor ring on the engine side of the crankshaft pulley positions the belt from the inside. These two surfaces position the belt on the center of the pulleys.

Another possibility is that the timing belt pulley is not fully installed on the crankshaft. This may be pushing the belt outward toward the timing belt covers. Whatever you do, do not hammer on the pulley to slide it on the shaft. The crankshaft, connecting rods and oil pump will not like that.

The belt should have been aligned as shown in this topic. To set the tension of the belt, you leave the tension hub nut loose after the belt is installed. The lower timing belt cover is then reinstalled with the small "door" removed. You then rotate the crankshaft just short of two turns in the CW direction until the first, yellow mark on the crankshaft damper aligns with the "0" degree mark on the timing cover. Do not turn the crank in the CCW direction to position it. This CW rotation and 60 degrees BTDC positioning is to tension the belt to its highest level. It is at this point where the tensioner's nut is tightened to 25-37 lb-ft. No additional force is aded to tighten the belt.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

sdpatt:
The tension of the timing belt is not what is allowing it to wander on the pulleys. That is the job of the guide "washer" on the crankshaft that mounts on the exterior face of the crankshaft timing belt pulley, but inside the lower timing belt cover. The flare of the guide curves away from the belt and pulley to the outside.

Thanks Scott, but Im still confused.

Do you have a picture of this "washer" Scott?

Maybe Im short one piece of this puzzle...
The Timing belt pulley and crank pulley are both seated completely. But the belt is even wandering on the timing pulley.

Is there actually a piece that is installed in-between the crank timing pulley and the crank pulley??

 

[projectSHO89]

It's that guide washer that Scott talked about.

Found that out with one of our local guys this spring.

Steve

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

I have no guide washer

What gives??

Does anyone have a picture of this "guide washer".

 

[shojuan]

Problem solved. You need to get yourself a guide washer.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

<--- scratches head, and heads out the door to check for a guide washer...

Geeze... I really think that I didnt have one to begin with. The belt that came off was hanging a bit off the cam gears before I took it off.

EVERY part that came off thtat motor was bagged in a ziplock bag, labled, and dropped in a box.

I do not remember such a washer....
headbang
hmm...

Anyone know where I can find one... wait, lemme guess... check the junk yards

Me ---> finger SHO parts

 

[AutoSHO]

You can see it still sitting on the crankshaft in this picture.

Also, are you installing your belt with the lettering upside down? the lettering should be readable from the driver's side, but upside down if looked at from the passenger's side.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

oh yeah, everything is installed correctly.

Only I dont have onoe of those washers. squint
I searched EVERYWHERE, and even looked through my 100s of pics I took before, during, and after the service. No washer. jpshakeh

But I did find a few pics showing the belt that was on there prior to the service. It was working itself off as well, and damaged the middle timing cover cuss

Ive sent a feww *** to peeps on the forum. Hopefully I can find a guide washer ASAP frown

 

[shojuan]

Kenny, aren't you the one who was always preaching about how pristine, mint, and all stock your 89 was?

And are you the one who bought Taurus Fey's rodshifter on ebay last November after you had already won a rod shifter a few weeks before? cuss

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

shojuan:
Kenny, aren't you the one who was always preaching about how pristine, mint, and all stock your 89 was?

I never said it was "pristine" or "mint", but it is a solid, nearly stock '89

shojuan:
And are you the one who bought Taurus Fey's rodshifter on ebay last November after you had already won a rod shifter a few weeks before? cuss

Nope.

Ive only had one rod shifter, in addition to the one on my car wink I snagged the shifter from a junkyard SHO.

And that one I recently sold to FOR SHO.

 

[shojuan]

NotSoSlowSHO:

Originally posted by shojuan:
[qb] I never said it was "pristine" or "mint", but it is a solid, nearly stock '89

Nearly stock sans timing belt guide washer!

Lol! lol

Sorry, I shouldn't be laughing. I hope you find one soon. If nobody comes through then maybe Al Fitz would sell you one without nickel and diming you too much. Or better yet maybe you can get a part number from Torrie and with luck get a new one or find a new old stock one if they're obsolete. Post the part number if you find it out.

 

[sdpatt]

Somebody somewhere had omitted installing the guide during a previous timing belt change. You didn't lose it. It was already missing to have allowed the belt to contact the timing belt covers. That thin guide washer is critical in proper location of the timing belt.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Kenny,

I got the PM. I had the same issue on a customer's car where the previous mechanic didn't install the washer and the belt ate through all 3 covers. It was quite a mess.

Nonetheless, Fred Hurder had some at the time that he was going to sell me. I'm confident that he'll be able to help you out.

Give him a couple days for a response though. He was at the convention.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Thanks for the reassurance Scott.

I was starting to doubt my parts-organization technique

Thanks Mikey, Im in no REAL hurry. Shoot, my SHO hasnt been on the road for nearly 2 months... a few more days, or even a few more weeks wont **** me wink

Ill go ahead and send Fred a PM as well. His username is Yamaha V6, right?

Thanks again... Its good to know that Im not going insain! thumb

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: NotSoSlowSHO ]</small>

 

[Yamaha V6]

Kenny -
I do have a couple kicking around.

Mike -
Let me know a complete list of stuff you want, etc., and we'll figure out a "box set" price if interested. The bit here & bit there kills me, as I live at A, work days & ship from B, and do SHO stuff at C.

 

[AutoSHO]

Yamaha V6:
Kenny -
I do have a couple kicking around.

Mike -
Let me know a complete list of stuff you want, etc., and we'll figure out a "box set" price if interested. The bit here & bit there kills me, as I live at A, work days & ship from B, and do SHO stuff at C.

So you're trying to say that all a car is for you is a way to get from point A to point B?

Wouldn't a Geo Metro work just as well?