Strange A/C Issue

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Sylentnite

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I have 93 Atx, I redid the entire AC(Compressor,dryer,etc) system in 2018. This whole winter my A/C hasn't been working, I've needed it to clear my windows occasionally and noticed the clutch wasn't kicking in. Even on a 60-65 day the A/C clutch wouldn't engage. Yesterday temp here was about 70-75, and tried the A/C and it worked fine(Ice cold) the entire day. I did try jumping the Dryer switch during the winter to see if the clutch would engage, and it wouldn't. Is there a temp sensor or something that is causing the A/C clutch not to engage in cooler weather?
 

jman1200

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The compressor should do very very short cycles if the ventilation system is set to defrost, regardless of the outside temperature.
 

Sylentnite

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The compressor should do very very short cycles if the ventilation system is set to defrost, regardless of the outside temperature.
I guess I've owned the car for 10 years, and never had this problem. Thats why I'm leaning towards something actually going on to cause the compressor clutch not to engage in cooler weather.
 

Greg Corcoran

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CCRM engages the AC clutch, right? Get the pinout for your flavor of CCRM, back probe to look for power at the CCRM pin, if there is power then look for intermittent connection from CCRM to the pressure switch. There should be 12V at CCRM out and one pin of the pressure switch if there is a call for AC.... Unless I'm smoking crack again
 

NoSlo

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The EATC is what controls the AC. It has an in-car temperature sensor, ambient temperature sensor, sunload sensor to inform it. Its output is to the AC clutch cycling switch.

The 1995 EATC system response grid states "A/C clutch on if outside temperature is above 50F" for all modes except vent and off. It is unclear if the EATC enforces this, or if they are just talking about how the pressure switch operates. Jumpering would have no effect if the EATC is not asking for AC.

Also for the EATC, the "A/C air temperature control door response" "varies according to sensor temperatures and customer temperature selection". The EATC decides if you get air that has passed through the evaporator. The AC door is an electric motor with a position sensor.

One could monitor the pressure switch connector for +12V (pink wire side) to see if the EATC is engaging AC.


The pressure switch only turns on with adequate static pressure in the resting system, 45 PSI or greater. In the summer, the system will be above 45PSI, and compressor thus runs until the system drops below 25PSI on the low side. There is less refrigerant vapor pressure with cold weather.

The service manual for 1993/R12 states "Ambient temperatures below approximately 45-50 during cold weather seasons will prevent the pressure switch contacts from closing". Also "The switch will close when pressure is 40-47PSI on R12 and 39-47.5 on R134a".

You can unplug the pressure switch on top of the condenser and test the switch with a multimeter to see if it conducts electricity, just sitting there on a 50 degree day. Engine compartment or passenger compartment heat may add a few degrees to the refrigerant after a while. Jumpering of course bypasses the system pressure.

See that the "A/C ON" +12V signal is getting all the way to the CCRM, it is pin 21 on the connector (pink/light blue wire).

Finally, the CCRM used for running the compressor. "If an A/C function is chosen, the A/C clutch field coil will energize only when the engine cooling fan is operating". This might mean that it can detect a failed fan motor, of which there are two. Also, these will cause PCM/CCRM to disable A/C: "wide open throttle, too high or low RPM, engine cranking, high coolant temperature".

There's really not much to fault or direction to go, because ambient temperature is unpredictable. You can supply battery 12V/ground directly to the AC clutch coil if you have a cutoff pigtail to plug in, or attach insulated female spade connectors to the two pins inside the compressor receptacle.

I also have a similar symptom with working summer AC that doesn't do much winter defrosting in the small temperature range where it is expected to operate. One year old pressure switch. I wonder if it is just R134a being finicky in its pressure/temperature relationship in the retrofit, and if another half-can of R134a would boost pressure, but I haven't cared to investigate.
 
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rubydist

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In addition to the excellent description above, its possible that the compressor clutch gap is such that its too large to kick on at certain temperatures, but will kick on at other temperatures. I would start with the clutch gap since that is very easy to check and adjust if needed.
 

FastCAD

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I have 93 Atx, I redid the entire AC(Compressor,dryer,etc) system in 2018. This whole winter my A/C hasn't been working, I've needed it to clear my windows occasionally and noticed the clutch wasn't kicking in. Even on a 60-65 day the A/C clutch wouldn't engage. Yesterday temp here was about 70-75, and tried the A/C and it worked fine(Ice cold) the entire day. I did try jumping the Dryer switch during the winter to see if the clutch would engage, and it wouldn't. Is there a temp sensor or something that is causing the A/C clutch not to engage in cooler weather?
Did you switch over to 134A when you did the a/c rebuild?
Did you install the correct liquid line with the correct orifice tube?
Did you install a 134A retrofit a/c recycle switch?
Verify that your engine fan(s) come on with the a/c.
Do you have gauges to confirm that you have enough charge?
 

BaySHO Performance

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If converted to R134A and you don't have an AC pressure gauge, go to your local parts store and get a bottle of AC Pro top up that comes with one. Measure the pressure at the low pressure port at the firewall with the engine running and AC on.
 

ssenter

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It could be something as simple as the plastic retaining clip for the compressor power feed broken, and therefore losing connection. I bought a 1994 ATX w/ that issue. The old connectors get very brittle and when you use gorilla tactics to remove the connectors, they break. Always! Solution: A dab of plastic epoxy to make a "lip" that allowed me to wrap a zip tie around the connector and wiring harness.
 

zak

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In addition to all the excellent advise above, had an intermittent AC fault on a 1995 that I eventually traced to a corroded pin for the circuit that engaged the AC clutch. Start at the CCRM and trace your way over to the AC clutch, think there are two connectors or so that need to be opened and examined.
 

Sylentnite

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Great advise, since it's been warm the AC has been working like it should. I'll check the connector to the AC compressor to see if it's corroded. Even if I short the switch on the dryer, compressor still doesn't kick on.
 

FastCAD

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Great advise, since it's been warm the AC has been working like it should. I'll check the connector to the AC compressor to see if it's corroded. Even if I short the switch on the dryer, compressor still doesn't kick on.
On my '91 I had found heavy corrosion inside the oval (2) pin heavy gauge plug attached to the fan shroud under the rad. cover that interfered with the fan and a/c clutch switch.
 

Sylentnite

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I've been having issues again, this time in warm weather. I did check the connector at the clutch, it was nice and tight, no corrosion. I changed out the CCRM, still no engagement of the clutch. I checked my pressures it does have a charge. I do notice that the fans do not kick on when I turn on the AC like normal. The fans do kick on when the temp rises though.
 

rubydist

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The fans not kicking on w/ the a/c being turned on means that the system is not working right (which you already know) the a/c being on commands the cooling fans to run at least on low speed. You could have one or more of several issues: low refrigerant, bad ccrm, bad low speed fan, bad etac, bad clutch gap, etc.
 

Sylentnite

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The fans not kicking on w/ the a/c being turned on means that the system is not working right (which you already know) the a/c being on commands the cooling fans to run at least on low speed. You could have one or more of several issues: low refrigerant, bad ccrm, bad low speed fan, bad etac, bad clutch gap, etc.

Im going to check the clutch gap, I know when it's low on freon, I can still get the compressor to cycle if I jump the switch, but it's not even doing that.
 

FastCAD

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If your fan(s) don't come on with the a/c on then your cycling switch will not work.
Double check that your fan(s) are working properly. Use a jumper wire to verify that the fan(s) do work
I lost the rest of my brain cells trying to figure out why the compressor clutch would not engage only to find out the fan motor failed (for the second time in 29 yrs) lol.
 

Sylentnite

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If your fan(s) don't come on with the a/c on then your cycling switch will not work.
Double check that your fan(s) are working properly. Use a jumper wire to verify that the fan(s) do work
I lost the rest of my brain cells trying to figure out why the compressor clutch would not engage only to find out the fan motor failed (for the second time in 29 yrs) lol.

The fans do work, when the car gets up to temp, I hear them kick on to cool the car off, they just don't kick on when I press the AC button.
If I short the cycle switch on the dryer and it still doesn't kick on that would eliminate it being the cycle switch correct?
What pin is it from the CCRM that goes to the compressor to verify the coil is getting power?
 

FastCAD

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If your fan(s) don't come on with the a/c on then your cycling switch will not work.
Double check that your fan(s) are working properly. Use a jumper wire to verify that the fan(s) do work
I lost the rest of my brain cells trying to figure out why the compressor clutch would not engage only to find out the fan motor failed (for the second time in 29 yrs) lol.
The SHO has another temp sensor on the back of the block (drivers side) that activates the fan(s) when it reaches an elevated temp. ten it shuts off the fans when the temp comes down
I have 93 Atx, I redid the entire AC(Compressor,dryer,etc) system in 2018. This whole winter my A/C hasn't been working, I've needed it to clear my windows occasionally and noticed the clutch wasn't kicking in. Even on a 60-65 day the A/C clutch wouldn't engage. Yesterday temp here was about 70-75, and tried the A/C and it worked fine(Ice cold) the entire day. I did try jumping the Dryer switch during the winter to see if the clutch would engage, and it wouldn't. Is there a temp sensor or something that is causing the A/C clutch not to engage in cooler weather?
Turning on the a/c will activate the Fan(s) regardless of engine temp.
There is a secondary sensor at the back of the engine (drivers side) that activates the fans (as needed) when the a/c is not on and the engine temp reaches an upper degree.

Turning on the a/c will automatically activate the fans (full time).
It is my understanding that with the a/c on and the fans running that when the SHO reaches a certain speed 50 mph (or so) the ECU will shut down the fans until the SHO comes down in speed.

If your fans are coming on (when it reaches) higher temps then (at least) the fan motor is working. This points to a probable fault at the CCRM.


I hope this helps.
 
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