SHO Not Starting

[JRA2000TL]

I got in to go for a joyride tonight and the SHO isn't starting. I posted awhile back about an electrical gremlin. I replaced my CID and the car started ok with an occasional slow start/jumping of the tach. When in accessory mode, all of the auxillary items come on and work fine (radio, interior lights, instrument lights, etc.) Everything lights up bright as if there's no problem. When I turn the key to start, the tach goes crazy (once it almost went all the way around clockwise), all the lights dim and it mostly clicks...the engine tries to sloooowly turn over about 1 revolution, then the instrument lights dim and that's it.

The battery shows right at 12 volts (11.9). I replaced the crappy battery terminals as I thought this was the culprit before. I checked the wiring from the battery to the starter as advised previously--no loose connections that I saw.

Awhile back when I had the car running, I did an alternator test on my battery charger, and it said it failed; however, the car had been driving ok then.

Is my alternator toast? What else should I check before I start throwing parts at it? I have a spare starter in the garage too. My ground should be ok, but I'll double check it once more.

Edit: grounds appear to be fine (I grounded the strap to the p/s bracket on the strut tower brace as it's a PITA to get back on when I have to remove the intake). The solenoid on the driver's fender smelled a little burnt. I remember seeing sparks from it once or twice before when starting the car with the hood up. Maybe it's fried, **** I don't know at this point.

 

[jmpSHO]

Have you checked the voltage at the starter? If your cables are in good condition and the starter is getting 12volts I would say try that spare starter you have.

 

[St Louis SHO]

Battery and Alternator

 

[jmpSHO]

You should also load test your battery.

 

[LJRuddy]

x2 for a load test.

 

[rubydist]

the other possibility that has not been mentioned yet is that the starter could be partially shorted. if this happens, the starter will draw excessive current and will crank more slowly.

 

[JRA2000TL]

Thanks everyone. I'll go pick up a battery and an alternator. Not long ago I had them check the battery and they said it was good, which I thought it was bad then. It's definitely bad now. I'm assuming the alternator going bad was intermittent since it failed the test before but the car has been running/driving relatively ok with some slow starts here and there.

I have a spare starter in the garage if the above doesn't solve the problem.

 

[rjsig8]

The burning smell is probably the voltage regulator and the diode,so u probably need an alternator I suggest you change the battery to its most likely fried too.

 

[frosho]

A sparking solenoid would scare me...

 

[JRA2000TL]

My brother and I pulled the battery and alternator last night and took them to the parts house to have them tested. The alternator passed! It's the original OEM Ford unit as well. The battery was discharged, and they said it simply needed to be recharged. I have recharged this thing several times, and I can get it to charge to 12.7 volts on my battery charger, but the car still won't start.

I think I will just try a battery anyway since this one is about 2.5 years old and has been run down and recharged several times. I will probably buy a solenoid since they're only 20 bucks. Now I'm wondering what the issue could be. I bought a multimeter today (didn't have one). I have a Ford shop manual, so I will take a look at it again.

Should I still go ahead and replace the alternator? I don't want to take a $125 guess. Despite having 4 bolts (3 mounting and 1 ground), it was a royal pain in the ass to remove due to the limited space to get to those bolts. We had to slide out the coolant overflow jug to get to one. We were up at 2am pulling this thing, and I was wasted, so I wasn't much help. My brother and I both worked on it.

I don't get it....can the alternator still be the problem if it passes their test? I remember my dad taking a battery in on one of their previous vehicles and AZ told them it was good, so he put it back in. A week or 2 later the car wouldn't start again, so he replaced the battery anyway despite it passing. Sure enough, it was the problem.

Can I trust their test? Maybe I should just try a battery and a solenoid and reinstall my alternator and try again?

I didn't jump the car off and try to load test the battery. I have my ski on the other side of the garage, so i didn't fool with trying to move it out and move another car in to jump start it. I think it takes a dump under a load anyway. I'm assuming it's possible for a battery to check or show as ok without a load, then drop when a load is applied. I will try the battery and see if that does it.

 

[SHOhopefull]

If it drops under load, then it's got a dead or weak cell, so yeah, new batt. Jeremy, go to Harbor Freight, and look for a Battery tester that looks like just a box with a switch and a bunch of wires inside a grated opening...this type are some of the best testers out there IMHO.

This...http://www.harborfreight.com/100-amp-6-volt-12-volt-battery-load-tester-90636.html

 

[LJRuddy]

Jeremy, a battery can test "ok" with a great voltage but all of that disappears when it is put under a massive load (starting a high compression engine). This is why you need to get it load tested. See what kind of voltage it puts out when it is stressed.


I had this happen in one of my work trucks. Both batteries showed an output of 12.9 volts but I could not get the freightliner to turn over more than once or twice. Turns out, under load, it was only putting out around 7 volts. FWIW, my truck had the exact same issues that you listed in your original post.

 

[jimtash]

Solenoid.

Here's a thing to try. Turn the key and if you here a click each time, repeat it til the car starts. If that happens, it's your solenoid.

I took the solenoid off the inner fender last week to paint the engine bay and for some reason it started giving me problems. Sometimes the car would start right up and other times I had to turn the key 20 times for it to crank. But each time I'd hear an audible click come from where the solenoid is located. I replaced it and no problems since. Remember that both battery cables are attached directly to it so it plays a major part in relation to starting and charging.

 

[JRA2000TL]

Battery failed under load, alternator tested ok again. I overtorqued my new solenoid and broke the post--damn. I reconnected the old one, put a battery in....and nothing..no lights, no chimes, no clicks. I bet I crossed the wires on the starter relay / solenoid.

There are several wires or fuse-links as the manual calls them. I'm wondering if I connected something wrong. Damn me for not taking a picture. Anyone have a pic of their Gen I solenoid properly connected? I need to see which wires connect to which post. I thought the red (hot) connected by itself and all the other wires were underneath the black (ground) on the other post.

 

[jimtash]

Solenoid connections are as goes when looking directly at it:

Top terminal: Ignition

Left side terminal: Positive battery cable and all the other wires.

Right side terminal: Negative battery cable

 

[JRA2000TL]

Ok, I think I reconnected the wires wrong. If you're standing in front of the pass side fender looking across directly at the relay, there is a large stud on the top right and one on the lower left. Top right I have the large red wire connected, lower left I have the large back connected with the 2 or 3 other small wires under it Then there's a 3rd small stud in which I have that one L shaped end wire connected (that one is correct). I wonder if I blew a fuse or broke something then. I will swap the wires when I get home and try it again.

 

[jimtash]

Ok, I think I reconnected the wires wrong. If you're standing in front of the pass side fender looking across directly at the relay, there is a large stud on the top right and one on the lower left. Top right I have the large red wire connected, lower left I have the large back connected with the 2 or 3 other small wires under it Then there's a 3rd small stud in which I have that one L shaped end wire connected (that one is correct). I wonder if I blew a fuse or broke something then. I will swap the wires when I get home and try it again.

Yep, you have it reversed. I doubt you did any damage.

 

[lowc]

didnt see it mentioned but ive seen dead batterys caused by alt not charging cause of bad tentioners also if the voltage regulator doesnt read iirc atleast 12.6volts it will not turn on per say

and it is very posible that you have blown a fuse by wirring the solinoid backwards but the solidoid itself should be fine

 

[qiksho]

Once you have everything back together and the car starts. You can test your alternator with your voltmeter.

Simply Turn it to DC Voltage to the 20 scale and put the red lead on the positive battery terminal and the black on negative. With the car running you should see roughly 14.5 volts.

You can then start drawing more from the battery (turn on Lights, A/C, Radio, etc.) to see what happens on the voltmeter. I have never seen one that was healthy dip below 14 volts....

 

[SHOhopefull]

Here Jeremy, see if this helps...

It was dark and I was taking the pic blind, so hopefully that'll help