SHO down :( Stalled at light and won't crank over.

[vortex2450]

I'm in a bit of a panic here.

Was driving the SHO home from work, made a stop to get gas, pumped $20 of non-methanol v-power , since my mileage sucks with everything else it was worth a shot; proceeded to start the car and had to crank it over for a solid 10s alternating the throttle tbefore it started. Weird but I figured it was time to be getting home in city driving environment. stop-go lights on a very busy thoroughfare. Idling just fine at a light, 800rpm and voltage at a solid 13v, oil pressure of 15psi. Purring and then it chugs for a split second and dies. Won't turn over at all when I tried starting it back up.

So I had to jump out and push the car to the turn lane and navigate a double left hand turn into a busy mall entrance, it was hairy. Made it to a parking spot at this point. I immediately unpacked my tool kit and went to work.

-Hit the starter solenoid while my friend cranked. Engine just seems to "jam" up and not want to turn over.

-Took off crossover tube and upper timing cover and checked the belt tension, which was good.
-I Was also able to determine the cams were timed correctly. Checked the tensioner through the access door and it was tensioned and secure.

- I tried cranking on the crank pulley with a 1/2" ratchet but couldn't budge it with just the ratchet handle as a moment arm.

-Oil is healthy looking and at a good level.

- No CODES. just a 111 confirmation.

- Got a jump and it didn't improve any part of the situation.

More background:

-Tri-Flows installed a month ago. Had to leave 6 valves out of spec in the front head due to a lack of thicker shims.

-Noticed an rpm related tapping @ 2500+ rpm about a week ago. Attributed it be the either the over loose shims or perhaps a chain tensioner.

-Starting issue is come and go since cam install as if the engine was flooding. Cut injectors via WOT throttle and it'll crank up fine. Figured a tune would help here.


My plan of attack is to replace the starter and cross my fingers.
I also suspect CPS death. Or perhaps more sinister issues. I wish I had taken video, I might tomorrow.

Any thoughts?

-Josh

 

[Racer X]

If the engine is binding up under manual rotation to the point where you just cannot rotate the crank, you have other issues.

I'm assuming the transmission is confirmed in neutral when you're trying to rotate the engine?

 

[Irish Pride]

You should post this up on SESHO. We would love to help you...:sun:

 

[vortex2450]

You should post this up on SESHO. We would love to help you...:sun:

I actually posted there first

I sounds like a CPS, and i've slept on it, definitely dreading this repair.

-Josh

 

[Off Road SHO]

The CPS has absolutely nothing to do with the cranking of the engine, the starter does that. All the CPS does is sense where the crank is in its rotation. Like stated above, fix the rotation problem first, then go fix other issues.

Tom

 

[sperold]

Pull the starter. Before installing another, take an appropriate screwdriver and pry the flywheel teeth with the screwdriver to ensure the motor does in fact roll over. The breaker-bar on the front pulley routine is difficult to perform.
Is this your MTX car?

 

[vortex2450]

The CPS has absolutely nothing to do with the cranking of the engine, the starter does that. All the CPS does is sense where the crank is in its rotation. Like stated above, fix the rotation problem first, then go fix other issues.

Tom

This was my exact thought. And that fact that it didn't throw codes was peculiar to me.

I stopped by the car after work and thankfully it turned over with ease after sitting all day, cranking now but no start. If it didn't crank I was going to loosen all the acc belts and replace the starter but despite the odd symptoms last night it the issue is now clearly pointing to the CPS.

Pull the starter. Before installing another, take an appropriate screwdriver and pry the flywheel teeth with the screwdriver to ensure the motor does in fact roll over. The breaker-bar on the front pulley routine is difficult to perform.
Is this your MTX car?

I have found that a 3' breaker bar has always done that trick for me. And yes this is my MTX, my only car to bott which mkaes the whole situation even more *****.

Tomorrow I'll have to get it towed to the Advance Auto and tear it apart to replace this stupid sensor, luckily it's just routine at this point. Shoudl take maybe 2 hours to do the whole job.

-josh

 

[jayro]

Have you checked for fuel and spark? I would verify those before tearing it down in the parking lot. If you have spark then it is not the CPS. Does the Tach register when you turn it over?

 

[vortex2450]

Have you checked for fuel and spark? I would verify those before tearing it down in the parking lot. If you have spark then it is not the CPS. Does the Tach register when you turn it over?

I have fuel, but I haven't checked for spark. Believe that I will before I begin tearing it apart. The tach jumps to 300rpm when cranking when makes me feel iffy about it all. No codes this time either.

-Josh

 

[93rev2sev]

My tach has always registered about 300 when I've had crank sensor problems. I know that there are reports that there should be no RPMs registered, but I think there are multiple CPS failure modes, one of which includes about 300 rpm being registered when cranking.

 

[vortex2450]

Update. Replaced the CPS, when I replaced it dropped one of the screws behind the timing cog and had to pull the timing belt off and re-time it. That went smoothly and I was easily able to turn the engine over with a 1/2" ratchet. Once I timed the engine I threw the cross over tube back on and went to start it before I put it all together, I turned over twice, caught a breath of life, then with a metallic gurgling grind it stopped mid stroke.

took the starter and timing belt off, can not turn the crank clockwise. Don't really have any way to turn the cam sprockets.


I believe at this point it is worth mentioning that I have had a tapping noise between 2500rpm and 4000rpm which I now believe was the cam chain tensioner after reading other posts about it. Perhaps the tensioner faield and the cam chain is all warpped up under the VC. If not the crank is seized and this cammed motor is DOA.

I'm in the process of removing stripped bolts now. I'll be back with what I find.

-Josh

 

[jayro]

I hope nothing bad happened with the timing of the camms. With Tri-flows and stock pistons it is now an interferance motor.

Not trying to scare you, but something to think about.

 

[intimdatr]

I hope nothing bad happened with the timing of the camms. With Tri-flows and stock pistons it is now an interferance motor.

Not trying to scare you, but something to think about.

Same thought had crossed my mind but didnt want to start a panic.

 

[vortex2450]

I took the valve covers off, nothing strange in there.

I hope nothing bad happened with the timing of the camms. With Tri-flows and stock pistons it is now an interferance motor.


Not trying to scare you, but something to think about.

I think either this happened or a bearing seized. I was told the tri-flows still cleared the pistons at TDC but this may not be the case. I tore the engine down to the crank and the cams. With the timing belt gone I tried rotating the crank but it won't budge.

Same thought had crossed my mind but didnt want to start a panic.

It has been going through my head all day, maybe I should rotate the cams and see if that frees up the crank? But that still doesn't explain why the car stalled in the first place, it didn't jump timing, the cams are in time with eachother and the crank is timed as well.


It looks like my SHO is toast :|

Just to recheck, I turned the cams over 3 full revolutions (360 crankshafts degrees and nothing was interfering or showing resistance beyond the spring force. Crank will not budge, I'm so hosed.

 

[jayro]

If all the timing is good then I wouldn't think the cams caused the issue.

I was under the impression that the plus 40's and TriFlows were interfernce.

Are you still working in the parking lot? You could check the rod bearings. I wonder if something got in the cylinder and is binding it up.

 

[sperold]

If you shove in the clutch, does it roll over then?

 

[vortex2450]

If all the timing is good then I wouldn't think the cams caused the issue.

I was under the impression that the plus 40's and TriFlows were interfernce.

Are you still working in the parking lot? You could check the rod bearings. I wonder if something got in the cylinder and is binding it up.

If you shove in the clutch, does it roll over then?

I don't believe they are. But i could be wrong, I know that if I'm able to turned the cams over in both directions as I was able to then the valves aren't holding the piston up.

What is weird is that I was cranking it 2 days ago without an issue. I turned the crank today will timing it without any signs of problems. Then I tried to start it, it turned over maybe once and stopped moving.

I have videos I'll post soon.

-Josh

 

[vortex2450]

If you shove in the clutch, does it roll over then?

Nope, tried my best. No luck there :|