Paint needs help

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Devin

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So I was wondering if there could be any hope with some TLC for this paint job:

Sho help paint

Things like what products, buffing compounds... etc might work would be helpful.
 

Storm-Chaser

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PM huntervf - he has a lot of experience with detailing paint on sun-faded SHOs. He even has a thread or two showing images of the before and after results . . . .


:burnout:
 

Huntervf

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PM received!

The bad news: There's nothing you can do to repair that damage. The clearcoat is cooked and coming off.

The good news: You can "fudge" it by wet-sanding all the faded clearcoat out, leaving the base coat and the remaining good clearcoat. You can then take a high-speed buffing wheel with a medium grit compound and buff the section back to a shine. The combination of a high-speed polisher and compound will blend the remaining clearcoat with the basecoat so it will look seamless and shiny. However, it will fade back out in a hurry, and if you want to keep it looking good you'll need to buff it probably once a month, and re-sand perhaps twice a year.

Also, dealing with wet-sanding and compounds with high-speed polishers can be a little dicey, as you can very easily take the paint right off your car. It's not a terribly difficult skill to learn, but patience and some experience are required to make it look really good. Fortunately, you already have damaged paint so it's not like you can make it look much worse :)
 

Huntervf

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That's where you start moving out of my area of expertise. Yeah you can, but I don't have the first clue as to proper prep work, blending, etc.

Here's an edit I was doing to my earlier post, but I took too long and you posted already :biggrin:


Dealing with wet-sanding and compounds with high-speed polishers can be a very dicey, as you can very easily take the paint right off your car, especially if it's already damaged and thin like it looks in your pic. Sanding/polishing isn't a terribly difficult skill to learn, but patience and some experience are required to make it look really good without doing a bunch more damage. Fortunately, you already have damaged paint so it's not like you can make it look much worse :)

Ingredients:

1 High-speed polisher. www.harborfreight.com carries some good, inexpensive polishers.
1 wool compound "cutting" pad. Meguairs makes some good pads and they can be picked up at just about any auto parts store
1 black foam "finishing pad". Once again Meguairs can be your answer.
1 bottle medium compound. Meguairs FTW once again, they make a complete line of "professional" grade products in tan bottles.
1 bottle machine glaze. You'll use this after you've used the compound. Once again, Meguairs offers a good glaze.
1000 grit wet sandpaper. Yeah, it's pretty aggressive, but with clearcoat damage like you have you'd spend an hour sanding that crap. 1000 grit offers a good combination of bite versus scratch, and the medium grade compound will take all the scratches back out so you don't have to go through steps (1000 grit sanding, 1500 grit, etc.)

Start with the sanding. Use plenty of water and constantly wipe down your area and check to make sure you're not removing paint. A white milky liquid means you're removing clearcoat. If you start to see any color in it you're into the base coat so STOP.

Once you have the cruddy clearcoat out, throw the wool cutting pad on your polisher and start with the compound. A little compound goes a long way, so don't get carried away with product. Also, work small areas at a time, a foot and a half square is a good rule of thumb. Keep the speed on the wheel in the medium-medium/slow range. Just work slowing until it all starts to look reasonably shiny and uniform. It won't glow with the compound, that's what the glaze is for. The compound will leave a glossy but hazy look. Once you're done with the compound, wipe the area down good with a rag to remove any left over compound, the switch to your foam polish pad and do the same thing, only with the glaze. Keep the speed the same, but you won't have to worry as much about burning off the paint as the glaze is non-abrasive. You'll still want to be VERY careful around rubber/plastic trim, as the foam pad can get hot in a hurry and you'll melt rubber trim in less than a second.

Once you're done with that and you have a shiny car, wash/wax as normal!

If it sounds pretty easy, it isn't. Give yourself a day and go slow until you get the hang of the polisher. However, once you get the hang of that polisher, people may start calling you a miracle worker:

plus_2nd.jpg


plus_side2.jpg


:thumb:
 

Devin

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Heck, it's worth a shot, and it already looks like ****, so why not. I can't wait to start :hdance:
 

SHO_DOODmorrris

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wow that rust buffed right out! :p any different procedures for the Non clearcoat lucky gen1 owners? (currant red for me) thanks

-M
 

Huntervf

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Obviously the non-clearcoat cars will not have peeling clearcoat to contend with, so you don't need to worry about wet sanding the damage out.

If your paint has a white-ish chalky look to it all you'll need to do is buff it back to a shine. That chalky look is damaged paint, and buffing with a light-medium grit compound will in effect strip away the damaged paint and gloss up the good stuff underneath. The good news is that this isn't a "fudge" procedure. Once you have the finish glossed up that's it, back to good paint. The downside obviously is that each time you strip away the damaged paint, the finish gets thinner and thinner, and it becomes MUCH easier to burn the paint off the car.

Here's another before/after on a non-clearcoat F-250 I used to own. In the before pic note the cap, which was painted to match with clearcoat. You can see the difference in a chalky, bleached out paint next to the cap which is the correct color. And then in the after pic the truck and the cap match once again. I also repainted the bottom and got rid of the old-school running boards, but the difference in the paint should be quite clear :)

Before:

passide_before.jpg




pass_after.JPG
 

Eric VerValin

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You really make me want to buy some of that compound.. I'd have some but AZ here doesn't have a big enough selection, just had #7, and #24 in the Tan bottles here.. :) O'Reily will be my next stop.. but I got a date today with another Yamaha (Raptor 660)

My friend has a "hog" grinder.. body grinder.. whatever you want to call it.. that kinda scares me using on my paint.. afraid I'll see sheet metal if I sneeze and squeeze the trigger a little too hard.


Would be a nice skill to learn tho honestly... then you could actually paint cars in your garage. :)
 

Huntervf

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A body grinder is a very different tool, and though you could technically slap a buffing pad on it I'd recommend one of the dedicated wheels on the market. You'll be able to get better speed control with a buffing wheel.
 
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Eric VerValin

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Yea that thing does have some serious torque.. thats what I was wondering... he's also got a buffer, but its one of those 2 handle electric jobs, but it doesn't like to work under too much pressure.
 

SHO_DOODmorrris

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you ont want too much presure lol (depending on the pad you are using) huntervf, any comments on a grinder style buffer vs the 2 hand ones? tx

-M
 

Huntervf

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Yeah you don't want to work with a bunch of pressure, though for tough finishes having enough torque and speed to get the paint warmed up will be beneficial.

Just so everyone is clear... this is your typical "orbital" polisher:

43424.gif


It spins slowly and also has a slight back-forth motion. This is good for waxing a car but it won't do much for finish repair. This is the "safe" polisher that pretty much anyone can use effectively with little experience. You'd pretty much need to attach actual sand paper to this thing for you to screw up your finish.

90820.gif


This is a high-speed polisher. Minimum of 1000 RPM up to 3000. Using a medium-grit compound and a cutting pad at high speed you'll burn through the paint on a modern clearcoat car in about 20 seconds. Find spots where the paint is thinner (like edges) and it can be much MUCH less.

Both are electric, and for polishing I ONLY recommend electric. I've seen air-powered tools but they don't offer quite the same range of control that the electrics do.
 

cetroutt

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how do you feel about Meguairs buff ball thingy? i have a really bad sunburn on the roof and i was wanting to buff it then rattle can clearcoat it. i just don't have a polisher or buffer.
 

Roady94

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- Hmmm. Just came across this thread. I had the same questions regarding paint, and much research confirmed everything Huntervf has to say regarding the high speed polisher. Sure did scare me out of buying one - for now.

I did come up with a third alternative; the Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Variable Speed sander/polisher. I bought one for $99 online, and picked up some polishes and pads through the AutoGeek site.

This polisher is almost guaranteed to NOT allow you to further damage your paint, and is good for all but the most serious damage (in which case only the high speed tool will do)

This approach is not as fast as a high speed unit in the hands of an experienced user, but I'm thrilled with the results. Still learning to determine proper pad/polish combos, but the results have been amazing.

- Jay
 

Huntervf

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Sorry, forgot about this thread!

The puff ball thing is kinda gimmicky. Yeah it'll polish your car, and it's neat to get into some harder-to-reach areas like door handles, and it can be good for buffing up wheels. But it's not really a damage-fixer if you follow my meaning. Use it for waxing, maybe glazing, but the hard work won't get it done.

As for not being able to damage paint with a lower-powered polisher, that's NOT TRUE! You can take a gritty compound and a rag and scour the paint by hand. Even a low-speed orbital buffer can be dangerous if you choose to use an aggressive product. Yes, a higher-speed wheel can damage it quick, but even lower-speeds can be disasterous if you're using a medium-heavy compound.

Basically, here's what I recommend: Start off with a high-speed polisher, because it can also function at LOW speeds. That'll save you from making a second purchase later on. Keep the polisher at low speeds and use a non-abrasive glaze until you get the hang of it. Then move on to a light grit compound and bump your speed a bit. Gradually move yourself to higher speeds and heavier compounds; you'll get a feel for how much is too much after awhile.

You can also just get a junk part to practice buffing on. I imagine most junkyards have some trashed-out body panels they'd part with for little or even no money.
 

Roady94

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- Dang! A full year has gone by and I just stumbled on this reply. Just in time to confuse me a bit.

Huntervf, regarding the low speed orbital polisher, you stated:
" . . . This is the "safe" polisher that pretty much anyone can use effectively with little experience. You'd pretty much need to attach actual sand paper to this thing for you to screw up your finish."​

I then posted in agreement with you, to which you responded:
"As for not being able to damage paint with a lower-powered polisher, that's NOT TRUE! You can take a gritty compound and a rag and scour the paint by hand. Even a low-speed orbital buffer can be dangerous if you choose to use an aggressive product. . . . Basically, here's what I recommend: Start off with a high-speed polisher . . ."​

Care to clear this up?

For the record, I have had nothing but excellent results with the Porter Cable unit I mentioned in an earlier post.
 

ryan21288

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It really is amazing what you can do with a buffer, compound and some good pads.

Before:
IMG00111

After:

IMG 2518

Before:

1221391g9ZZZZZZZZZ8ac2847b825ebd21e

After:
IMG 1362
 

Devin

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- Dang! A full year has gone by and I just stumbled on this reply. Just in time to confuse me a bit.

Huntervf, regarding the low speed orbital polisher, you stated:

stuff

I then posted in agreement with you, to which you responded:

more stuff​

Care to clear this up?

For the record, I have had nothing but excellent results with the Porter Cable unit I mentioned in an earlier post.
I read that as: Unless you are careless you won't screw up the finish with a low speed orbital. The high speed polisher WILL screw up your finish if you don't know what you are doing.

Either way, I read all of these posts as: don't practice on a good fender :)
 
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