Ok...now I'm perturbed...

[Bizzy]

I got my catless y-pipe, 02 sensors and various other parts. Hit nothing but obstacles today at every angle. Good 'ole Michigan rust factor!

In any case...I got absolutely nothing done except getting greasy, grimy, sweaty, eyes and mouth full of dirt, etc, etc, etc. Welcome to Michigan SHO world!

Anyway...here's the problem. I put everything back together, re-attach the battery, start her up and reset the loads. She won't stay running at all most of the time, but when I did get it to idle for a minute it was very irregular, up and down between. I don't understand what happened. The only thing I did was to undo the battery & 02 sensors, but I double checked that their connections were good when I re-attached them, and the connectors are very clean inside.

Suggestions? Anybody?

 

[SHOZ123]

I'd take it out for a good spin. Mabye it needs to learn how to be a SHO again.

 

[Bizzy]

Did just that....she runs like a champ...until you go to stop. Engine dies. Got the CE light also while out...will check the codes as soon as I get cleaned up.

 

[GreenBird]

Bizzy:
Good 'ole Michigan rust factor!

In any case...I got absolutely nothing done except getting greasy, grimy, sweaty, eyes and mouth full of dirt, etc, etc, etc. Welcome to Michigan SHO world!

Heh...try a vermont winter and you will be glad to be in Michigan.

You sound like my kind of woman, Too bad all the women in vermont can't even drive a stick shift much less change their oil or install a new Y-pipe.

I'm not famialir with SHOs, but I suggest you clean your IAC valve. Its free, and a most-likely cause of something that only happens at idle.

 

[DHMag]

doesnt the SHO have 2 different O2 Sensors ? from what ive heard, theyre easy to mix up...

 

[Bizzy]

DHMag:
doesnt the SHO have 2 different O2 Sensors ? from what ive heard, theyre easy to mix up...

Well, the thing about it is that the new ones didn't get installed yet. The old ones are frozen in the bungs on the old pipe which still resides on my car.

 

[luigisho]

You didn't break a manifold stud or nothin? You the man..er.. the woman BIZ! Another job well done. thumbs_u

 

[Bizzy]

luigisho:
You didn't break a manifold stud or nothin? You the man..er.. the woman BIZ! Another job well done. thumbs_u

Psssttttt....luigisho....the job's not done yet...shhhh....don't tell anyone....

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Bizzy ]</small>

 

[DavidT]

I bet she'll run fine tomorrow... assuming you drove her some today. Every time I disconnect the battery to my sho, It will run like you are describing for a bit, then it will be fine. (Even after resetting the computer)
They like to play on our emotions

BTW... Do you have to disconnect the battery to change the 02 sensors?

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: dkautumna ]</small>

 

[Bizzy]

Mine usually drives a little funny also normally until the computer relearns the car, but never like this. I don't know that you have to remove the battery cables for the 02 sensor replacement, but remember that it is an electronic item and can be effected by electrical surges. I always undo my battery before messing with them.

I did take her out for about an hour drive today and she runs great as long as your foot is on the gas pedal. Once you release the gas it dies out. Now, it did idle in the driveway tonight, but when I gave her some gas and then let off it died again. It did throw codes this afternoon and I haven't checked them yet. I talked also with a good friend tonight who knows his stuff and he gave me some pointers on other stuff to check on tomorrow.

I don't know guys...the car just sounds really sick. Even at idle in the driveway which is really low (between 600 & 800rpm's...about 900 is typical for my car) she just sounds like she's having a hard time...straining to run.

 

[sdpatt]

Beth, it sounds like the idle program did not get set properly. You might want to try it again. I'll bet the codes will tell you the real answer though.

Both the front and rear bank O2 sensors are the same. Why would they be different? Same combusted gasses out of each pipe.

 

[Bizzy]

sdpatt:
Beth, it sounds like the idle program did not get set properly. You might want to try it again. I'll bet the codes will tell you the real answer though.

Both the front and rear bank O2 sensors are the same. Why would they be different? Same combusted gasses out of each pipe.

Thanks Scott...I was going to email you in a few about this. I'll keep you posted.

Also, Scott is correct on the 02 sensors being the same. I overlooked that question. There are 3 different part numbers listed at auto parts stores, the sensors are the same but the wiring harness lengths are different. 8", 13" & 16" I believe is what they told me.

 

[Bizzy]

Ran the codes today...

14 - PIP circuit failure. Suspect PIP sensor or TFI module or grounding or interface problems at TFI module.

(Edit: As quoted from Scott...the code 14 indicates at least one failure of the PIP, Profile Ignition Pickup sensor, otherwise known as the crankshaft position sensor (Wells SU242, AutoZone $42.99). It's the labor to install it that runs up the time and effort bill.) I just had that replaced about 2 years ago...do they go bad that quickly? Is there a warranty period? A Ford dealership installed it.

66 - MAF sensor less than minimum voltage.

What now? I'll be searching for info here and elsewhere, but if anybody has suggestions, I'm more than willing to try them. Unfortunately for me rain is moving into the area...this will put a damper on things...excuse the pun.

Also, I did reset the computer again. It seems to idle somewhat better but it still idles a little erratically when returning to idle from a 3.5k rev...but now it catches itself before it cuts off.

<small>[ August 04, 2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Bizzy ]</small>

 

[luigisho]

Well the maf code you can check by unplugging the maf connector. If the car runs ok in open loop then the maf has a problem.

The PIP is the crank sensor and TFI refers to the thick film ignition module which I would guess refers to the DIS. I don't know of any other thick film component. I would also guess that since these two are connected and relay to the pcm the problem could reside anywhere within and set off codes for supporting components.
I think Scott has a better conceptual idea of the interrelated workings of these ignition components. But maybe something to get started. Did you disconnect the pcm wire from the battery also?

I'm curious about the power surge to the computer every time the battery is reconnected. Could this contribute to failing pcm's if done a considerable amount of times?

<small>[ August 04, 2002, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: luigisho ]</small>

 

[fredhurderjr]

Did you plug the MAF in?

You know the drill, Bizz. Double check all the connections & vacuum lines while you're there, and wiping the computer out can't hurt either.

 

[Bizzy]

fredhurderjr:
Did you plug the MAF in?

You know the drill, Bizz. Double check all the connections & vacuum lines while you're there, and wiping the computer out can't hurt either.

Hehe...yeah Fred...I plugged the MAF back in. wink

Will double check all connections and vacume lines today....the drill is in process.

Edit...took her out for another spin. Got the CE light 2 times. Idle is somewhat better when first starting her up, but again...coming down from over 2.5 or above K rpms (as in when coming to a stop) she tends to stall still. Ran codes again and only came up with code 66 for the MAF sensor. Took the connector off and cleaned the connector off (it wasn't dirty on the inside), plugged it back in and the idle is much better. But it still stalls when coming down from higher rpms. At this point I'm thinking that there may be a problem with the sensor itself.

But a question remains in my mind. If I never even messed with the MAF sensor yesterday, why would it be causing me problems now? I already know the answer to the question...because it's a SHO. Right?

<small>[ August 04, 2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Bizzy ]</small>

 

[luigisho]

Bizzy, have you tried to operate it with the maf unplugged while driving? Now doing this will throw a MAF code in itself. The MAF should be out of the performance loop at this point so if the performance problem persists I would look elsewhere. If the car still has a problem finding idle from deceleration the usual suspects are IAC or TPS. Then on to other electronic components.

 

[Bizzy]

Actually, yes...last night I unplugged the MAF sensor and started the car. It would die right away then...no idle whatsoever. I haven't tried that today though since I reset the computer.

So the car should stay running when the MAF is unplugged???

Edit: Ok...I just did that and the car did stay running. However the idle was unsteady and low. I did get the CE light as you described.

<small>[ August 04, 2002, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Bizzy ]</small>

 

[luigisho]

Now is the unstedy and low idle you describe the same as when the MAF is plugged in? Or better yet does a spin around the block w/maf unplugged produce the same symptoms on acel/decel/idle as when maf is plugged in normally? If you get the same symptoms with it unplugged and plugged in the problem may be emanating from somewhere else. How about a little IAB/IAC cleaning? and clean the MAF filaments too. Did you install the O2's?

 

[Bizzy]

Thanks guys- I'm still have problems.

The MAF when unplugged makes the idle worse. It stays running now that I've cleaned the connector and contacts though. The idle under normal circumstances is around 900 to 950 rpms. When I first got it started it was hovering between 500 & 700 rpms and very uneven. It now is staying right at 850 and steady..except as described below. When the MAF is unplugged it drops down to between 500 & 700 again and continues to go up and down and eventually it will stall.

Today I drove her about 100 miles and it seems to be running just fine until I push the clutch in to come to a stop. If I decelerate slowly it seems to not stall out...if it's a fast stop then it stalled just about every time or catches itself just before it stalls.

IAB...I cleaned. That is a job I'd much rather do with the intake is off the car...the bottom screw is a PITA.

O2's I didn't replace yet as they were frozen in the bungs. I was planning on replacing the whole y-pipe with the new 02's but I couldn't even get the old y-pipe off. Needs to be done soon though because the cats are trash...one even has a strap around it holding the heat shield on it. That was a mod made by the previous owner. I honestly never even looked at the things until recently when I heard them rattling. Shame on me....

Keep ideas coming...I'm trying just about anything (within my mechanical knowledge) at this point. Thanks again guys!

<small>[ August 05, 2002, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Bizzy ]</small>