NOT going into gear!!!!!

[It's_SHO_Simple]

I am sure this will sound stupid of me but how would buying a stock valeo clutch be the "sure way" to see if the problem persists? I thought that the stage one clutch master clutches uses a stock valeo pp plate? And the fluid in there is royal purple max atf and shifting was the same even after we changed out the fluid as compared to the old fluid. I am completely stumped, we have eliminated almost everything that could be wrong except for the tranny and after such a long time I am pretty much convinced that it has something to do with the synchronizers or something of that nature. Should just get a used tranny from ebay of the JY or something or should I keep thinking it is not the tranny? I keep telling myself that there is nothing wrong with the tranny because I was driving through all 5 gears with no problem only until it got warm then the hard shifting would occur but after seeing the tranny down and all of the components looking the way they do I have no other choice but to consider that the tranny has crapped out. And I don't think the shift rod shifter would be the culprit unless it changes shape when it gets warmer????????? I don't have a clue to what is going on, all I know is that I am going to be needing a lot of money quickly.

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Measure the thickness of the disc, it should be .330 free thickness, .300 with it squeezed. Please let us know the results.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

How do I check the thickness of the disc when it is squeezed? What do I squeeze it against? And the .330 and .300 is measured in inches correct?

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Squeeze the disc with your fingers and measure the thickness. You can use pliars if you use a pieces of wood to avoid damaging the friction material. And yes, the dimensions are in inches. Need to use dial calipers.

 

[turboranger91]

damn, this is bufuddling. when i first started reading this thread, i kept thinking "this is exactly what happened with the ranger", but then i realized that, duh, the sho isn't a hydrolic clutch... it can't be low on fluid.

i sure hope you get it figgured out.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Hey Howdy Doody I measured the disc today with a dial caliper and the thickness without it squeezed was measured at exactly .300". I didn't get a chance to squeeze it but I am pretty sure if I squeeze it the number will be smaller than .300". So what does this tell me exactly? Did Clucthmasters send me the wrong clutch pp and disc combo?

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Well, a thinner disc should make it easier to release, and therefore easier to get into gear...so the disc doesn't sound like the problem, unless it's warped or something. Does it lay flat against the flywheel?

Now I'm beginning to wonder about the pressure plate. To install the stronger torque straps, it had to be at least partially dissassembled. Which means it could have been reassembled wrong. If your mechanic has a bench press, you can place the disc and pressure plate on the bench press, push down on the diaphram spring about 1/2". The disc should be free to move. If not, you've got problems with the pressure plate.

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Actually, that pressure plate should release with only .300" travel of the release bearing. That should lift it 1/16" above the disc.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Ok after close inspection and thorough questioning of the mechanic I found out that he drain the tranny through the front bolt that we aren't supposed to ue because bad things happen. But what exactly happens when you you drain your tranny via that bolt? And another big concern was that I noticed that the TOB and quill sleeve were greased up and I read in the manual that you shouldn't grease those parts up, could that have had something to do with my problem? The mechanic said that the grease helps the TOB move freely easier. But I have no clue on what happened but I just picked up a tranny from the JY for $400 bucks and I hope to get it put it soon. I am going to drain and fill it myself with Mobil 1 ATF through the filler plug so I won't have to worry about those guys removing that bolt again. Well for all of the input and I guess anymore would be welcomed.

 

[Howdy_Doody]

I don't think it was a tranny problem since you had trouble even putting it into reverse. As long as you've got it torn apart, I'd put a stock Valeo pressure plate back in.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Well on the last day that I was in my car it went into all 5 gears but it wouldn't go into reverse and this is while the car is off and my starter was dead so I couldn't even try it with the car started. I have to run now but I'l be back to talk more thanks for the advice howdy.

 

[masho95]

But what exactly happens when you you drain your tranny via that bolt?

As long as nothing was moved in the linkage it should be fine.

And another big concern was that I noticed that the TOB and quill sleeve were greased up and I read in the manual that you shouldn't grease those parts up, could that have had something to do with my problem? The mechanic said that the grease helps the TOB move freely easier.

Actually the TOB IS supposed to be greased, but not in the center where it slides on the shaft. The TOB is supposed to be greased on the top and bottom "ears" where the fork makes contact with it. I'm not 100% sure but I think the major reason it's not supposed to be greased is because it would allow foreign contaminants to become suspended in the grease and eventually it would gum up enough to prevent the sliding back and forth.
[/QUOTE]

 

[zak]

The ceramic TOB you have is a Rev B unit and needs no grease on the ID (where it slides back and forth), only on the ears that contact the fork (bearings all come prelubed here). FOr the ID it uses a self lubricated plastic for that and Ford cautions against greasing it (see Factory Service Manual). However the grease now present would not cause difficult shifting.

Look, the tranny fluid gets drained both from the inspection hole and when you pull the axles out, the unit is drained whenever it is removed from the car. One guess is that the unit did not get refilled (after first the clutch r&r), which would explain difficult shifting after it got hot, what little fluid was in there would overheat and at the wrong (too hot) viscosity would not spin the synchros up. Not saying that that is what is the case here, just a possiblity.

Some of these aftermarket performance clutches, while using the stock diaphram spring in the pressure plate, mess with the ramp rates of said spring to tweak 10% or so more clamping force. However, this can create problems with release (drop) distance resulting in incomplete disengagement (leading to difficult shifting).

For example, some aftermarket performance clutch makers machine in pockets for balls that create a new lever point for the spring, problem is it can be very uneven (ring pivot vs a few balls). It can also cause problems with diaphram spring finger/TOB bearing contact uneveness, something I suspect causes the rattle noise some hear, and can also mess up the clutch release (drop distance) as discussed above. I believe this is why people are telling you to put a stock clutch in.

Am still struggling with why you were blaming the TOB itself in your first post . . .zak

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Some of these aftermarket performance clutches, while using the stock diaphram spring in the pressure plate, mess with the ramp rates of said spring to tweak 10% or so more clamping force. However, this can create problems with release (drop) distance resulting in incomplete disengagement (leading to difficult shifting).

For example, some aftermarket performance clutch makers machine in pockets for balls that create a new lever point for the spring, problem is it can be very uneven (ring pivot vs a few balls). It can also cause problems with diaphram spring finger/TOB bearing contact uneveness, something I suspect causes the rattle noise some hear, and can also mess up the clutch release (drop distance) as discussed above. I believe this is why people are telling you to put a stock clutch in.

I agree totally.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Well I am going to be putting on the tranny that I picked up at the JY. I got new axle seals and am going to fill it with Mobil1 synthetic ATF. And if the problem persist then I guess I am left with 2 good trannys and 1 crappy PP. If PP is the problem then I will buy a stock clutch kit. And I don't think I blamed everything on the TOB, I was just thinking that it could be the problem because the one member on here told me that the same thing happened to him and all of the symptoms I had when I had the problem back in 06 so I just assumed that if the TOB was messed up the first time then maybe the second time around it could still be the problem. I will keep everyone updated on what happens. Thanks again.

 

[masho95]

I honestly think you are wasting time putting in a replacement tranny, but I hope I'm wrong. I think you are going to have all the work done to replace the tranny and leave that bad clutch in there and have to take everything apart again to replace the defective clutch. But what do I know? Hope I'm wrong and GL

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Ok so today they are putting up the new tranny and then the mechanic calls me and say that there is something wrong with my Pressure Plate. Said something like the top spring has more tension that the botton half causing the clutch to burn and wear unevenly????? I have now friggin clue what the **** it's supposed to mean but I guess I am stuck with two good trannys and a bad PP, just my luck that he now finds that there is a problem with the PP. So howdy I replied back to your pm and I hope to hear from you soon and I am trying to get that online place where I ordered the CM1 to send me a replacement or a refund.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Yeah the mechanic was like " the springs for the fingers have different tensions and it is a factory defect, you should get a refund or atleast have it warrantied" I am now going to be waiting for a new stock Valeo PP and then my problems should be solved and hopefully clutchmasters can do something for me. Thanks for all of the help.

 

[93rev2sev]

I am sure this will sound stupid of me but how would buying a stock valeo clutch be the "sure way" to see if the problem persists? I thought that the stage one clutch master clutches uses a stock valeo pp plate? .

I'm guessing that one of your specially built custom components are not right.


A stage one clutch is a valeo unit that has been screwed around with to make it "hold better", and have a harder pedal that will prematurely streach your clutch cable. 99% of SHOs do not need a "high performance" clutch kit in any way, shape, or form. (if you are boosted, I'll shaddap).

What power increasing modifications have you made to the engine that makes you think that a "stage one" clutch is needed?

A lightened flywheel is another story...that IS a performance mod but it still does not need a special clutch kit.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

All done and over with I hope

Thanks Howdy Doody for getting me that new stock pressure plate so quickly, I really appreciate your help and just to let everyone know my SHO is back on the road it was a bad PP and not my tranny, she drives better than ever. Now I have a MTX tranny in my living room and Clutch masters is sending me a replacement Pressure plate . I guess I'll just put everything on eBay. I never thought it could have been my tranny because It was shifting perfectly through all of the gears only until it got warm then it would act up. I really wish I would have listen to you guys that way I would have wasted my time and money on a new tranny and paying those "mechanics" a boat load of dough. O well's I learned my lesson, always trust SHOforum members and not mechanics who can't figure out the problem and make me replace almost everything except for the thing that needed to be replaced. Thanks again Eric and everyone who had some advice and help for me.