NOT going into gear!!!!!

[Howdy_Doody]

Do you still have all your old parts? I'm suspect of the clutch fork. I've seen several companies are cataloging the wrong clutch fork for our cars. I believe the one they catalog is for a Tempo. Don't know the difference between the two, but if you have your old one still it would be good to compare.

Other things to check: disc installed backwards, bent disc, disc too thick (should measure about .300 compressed).

 

[doclees]

Quill sleeve duh. Forgot about that possibility. Howdy's list is good too. It has to be an install error.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

I ordered the clutch fork from rockauto and did not fit, everything was exactly like the stock fork but the only difference was it didn't fit over the shaft. I had to get it machined out to fit properly so the hole on the units from rockauto are too small and need to be drilled out. I do not think they put any green loctite on the quill sleeve would this make the car act this way?? I am positive that this has something to do with the TOB because I got the car out of reverse and it was shifting through the gears fine with the car on and off, I didn't drive it because I don't want to damage anything but after the car got warm it stopped going into gear. So should I buy a new TOB and this time put green loctite on the quill sleeve? Well I will find out on Monday when the tranny is pulled. Do you think the mechanic will cover the costs of a new TOB and the labor if this is the problem? And do you think any damage has occurred to the PP, Disc, flywheel etc from the quill sleeve not being loctited? Thanks for everything.

 

[doclees]

I will think good thoughts for you. If they didn't loctite the quill sleeve it was an install error. Their bad. I have no first hand experience on this possible damage. Maybe none

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Ok this is going to be a stupid question and I know am going to sound ******** asking it but what do you loctite the quill sleeve to? To the TOB itself or are you supposed to loctite it to the shaft that the TOB is on? I can assume it should be loctited to the the TOB but I just want to make sure what to tell my mechanic. Thanks again ya'lls have been a lot of help to me and I really hope there is not too much damage but there shoudln't be right, because I didn't drive it when it stopped shifting and I only drove it a combined 13 miles while it was shifting properly.

 

[doclees]

The quill is the AL extension that covers the input shaft. Since it is AL it can/does get worn from a bad TOB. The quill sleeve is a steel cover for the quill to protect it. The sleeve gets glued to the quill. Now the TOB can slide on this sleeve without getting hung up on an unevenly worn quill. The sleeve goes on the quill with the ****** to the tranny. Then the TOB. I hope your mechanic knows this. I will try to insert a pic of a quill without a sleeve. Oops got to shrink it first.

 

[zak]

Others have reported the need to machine the rockauto clutch fork to get it to work, see Hall of Fame. My guess is that this peice is not allowing your clutch to fully disengage. It is unlikely to be the throwout bearing. zak

The locatite goes between the quil sleeve and the aluminum trans shaft. It has occred in the past that mechanics have mixed this up and loctited the bearing runner (black plastioc inner portion) to the quil sleeve, if the later then there's your problem.

Check also for proper clutch cable adjustment, yours might be frayed (where it goes through the firewall) or out of adjustment.

One final issue I've seen, sometimes they forget to put the fluid back in the transmission after a clutch r&R. It will work fine for a little while . . . . then various problems can occur including difficult shifting. Fits your description

 

[Bizzy]

I ordered the clutch fork from rockauto and did not fit, everything was exactly like the stock fork but the only difference was it didn't fit over the shaft. I had to get it machined out to fit properly so the hole on the units from rockauto are too small and need to be drilled out. I do not think they put any green loctite on the quill sleeve would this make the car act this way?? I am positive that this has something to do with the TOB because I got the car out of reverse and it was shifting through the gears fine with the car on and off, I didn't drive it because I don't want to damage anything but after the car got warm it stopped going into gear. So should I buy a new TOB and this time put green loctite on the quill sleeve? Well I will find out on Monday when the tranny is pulled. Do you think the mechanic will cover the costs of a new TOB and the labor if this is the problem? And do you think any damage has occurred to the PP, Disc, flywheel etc from the quill sleeve not being loctited? Thanks for everything.

I don't think your problem is with the manufacture of the TOB itself but it does sound like there is a problem with how they installed the TOB/quill sleeve and/or the clutch. If they made a mistake with the install then they should take care of it. Though you should read your agreement with them, a lot of places don't warranty customer supplied parts so if there is damage to the clutch (scoring of the clutch surface from the non-release) then you might be SOL.

If the fork is the culprit then I think you're pretty much out of luck. I don't think RockAuto will be much help other than offering another one. Since you modified the one you got from them they're likely not to warranty anything at all. If you need another one let me know, I've got some used ones laying around out in the shop.

Good luck!

 

[93rev2sev]

Well, if it helps, check out these pictures of a properly working clutch fork.

engaged


Disengaged


Now, you mentioned that when you looked at it it looked like about 1-1.5 inches of travel...that sounds about right according to these pics.

Now, what would happen if the quill sleeve was moving with the TOB?

 

[Bizzy]

The sleeve could get stuck at an angle and the TOB could jam so that the clutch wouldn't be allowed to engage/disengage. Other bad things can happen too.

When he said he replaced the fork I assumed he meant the fork inside the bell housing that engages the TOB rather than the armature that attaches to the cable.

 

[doclees]

Well, is it out? What was it?

 

[zak]

Inquiring minds want to know . . . any update?

 

[Bizzy]

Inquiring minds want to know . . . any update?

I'm curious as well.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

The shop manager told me they would have the tranny down in a couple of days and acouple of days have past and now they say they were too busy. I am leaving tomorrow for a business trip out of the country so I have parked my car in front of my friends house and asked him to start it up for me every once in a while for the month that I am gone. The car barely drives just like it did the first time when the old TOB went bad so I am pretty sure the problem is with the TOB, quill sleeve or fork. Another thing the mechanic said that you don't have to put green lock tight on the quill and I was telling him that you guys told me so and he fired back with " What do those guys know, they said if you changed out the clutch quadrant then that will fix it" I got defensive and I told them that you guy own and drive these cars and I think they know what they are talking about. Then he just said well when you come back to America in month just bring the car back to the shop and we drop the tranny. Is it ok for my friend to start my car up everyonce in a while? I left the car in neutral with the ebrake on. Thanks for all of your help and in a month hopefully this issue will be resolved and I will have updates asap.

 

[AREA 91]

I don't see a need to start the car for a month. As far as using GREEN LOCTITE, THAT IS A MUST!!!!!!! If the shop isn't willing to listen to you, take the car somewhere else!

 

[zak]

Appears to be a related thread you posted earlier. Perhaps the trans is involved (e.g. synchronizers) did you speed shift 1 to 2?
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=69297

 

[doclees]

Green loctite! I thought it was the red for larger threads? Glad I caught that before I put mine on.

 

[It's_SHO_Simple]

Sorry it took so long but here's an update

I know that this was posted a while ago but the shop finally (they said they were really busy and made me wait two weeks) dropped the transmission and everything seemed to be fine. I took some pics with my cell phone I will figure out how to post them up later. At first I was convinved that there was something wrong with the pin in the TOB because the shop didn't used the one that comes with the SHOnut ceramic TOB and they told me they installed a used pin so I thought the pin must have broke and that would be causing all of my problems but instead they used a metal screw and the TOB goes in and out just fine, fork looks good, clutch cable is still new and quill sleeve has stayed put. The flywheel, PP and disc look good, just a little burnt from us trying to force it into gear. I am pretty sure that ZAK is correct about it might having something to do with my tranny. The transmission specialist said that it could be a syncronizer. I didn't speed shift from first to second but I did down shift really hard at a high rpm. I guess I will just have to save up some money to get my tranny rebuilt or just part out my SHO because there are lots of new parts on this baby, what do you think I should do? Thanks for everything.

 

[93rev2sev]

The expensive "sure way" is to buy a stock valeo clutch kit and see if the problem persists.

 

[zak]

Try a different trans fluid. What fluid did the shop use? Going back to the fact that it only shifts with difficulty when warm, possible fluid problem. Sloppy shifter rods? Some ideas - zak