Introduction of myself and i need help!

[sillysho]

Hello all

I purchased a 94 SHO automatic about 6 months ago and been postponing signing up as i know if i did i would start modding this car witch is my daily driver(my toys are 2.3 turbo Fords..im a ex 5.0L guy) but now i need help with something that i searched for on this board but in my case it doesnt make sence to mysellf

i cant determin witch of the 2 sensors this problem is. Car will start up in the morning and run fine. Sometimes after letting the car sit for short amounts of time after driving it will not start on the first try. Might take 1-5 or so trys but will allways start. This conditon has been going on for about 4 months. Sometimes also after it is started the tach will not work then flash on while driving. I pulled the codes with a $2500 Snap-on scanner 2 days ago and got 3 codes

212 (M) Ignition TACH signal was erratic (module/wiring) or SPOUT circuit fault - Ignition Systems
214 (M) Error in Cylinder ID (CID) circuit or signal - Ignition Systems
336 (O,R,M) PFE sensor signal is/was was high - ">PFE

the 336 i think was an old one as it is not really related but wouldnt the CID one point to the cam position sensor but the isnt the loss of tach a crank postion sensor. I did swap out the DIS module for another one to rule it out but im lost. I really dont want to change the crank one if its not it and im waiting on the cam one as it is simple. No matter if i have a CEL or not or if the tach reads Zero or not the car will act exaclty the same once it is started(somtimes a rough idle for about 10 seconds). WOT there is no diffrence ever(just fast)

Thanks so much
Matt

 

[Jaz2099]

I'd replace the camshaft position sensor. It is fairly cheap and easy. Depending on how many miles your car has you probably should be thinking of doing the 60k maintainence anyway the crank sensor, etc...

 

[SHOtimer]

I would be replacing your CID sensor - it is around $35 and for the first time takes maybe 20 min to change.

Doug

 

[Rockledge]

I agree with Jaz and SHOTimer. The 214 code and the hard starting point to a bad CID (camshaft position) sensor. Moreover, one of the pinpoint tests for the 212 code is to confirm that there is a valid CID signal.

The 336 code might be a bad DPFE sensor.

 

[shoebilly]

I would be replacing your CID sensor - it is around $35 and for the first time takes maybe 20 min to change.

Doug

The guy is high if he thinks the cps can be changed in 20min. I think maybe this IS a cps problem. Its typical that this problem will leave you stranded, a pedestrian. This will cost no less han $275-300 to changeout this part at a friendly neigborhood garage. 20min. is BULL.The part alone will cost maybe twice or more at your friendly mechanics garage.

 

[SASHO91]

Uh no he is not high... (not that i know of...)

He said CID. which is the Camshaft Identification Sensor...
the CPS is another sensor, and takes longer... the CID is a 20min job.

Edit: Mods you can delete this too...

 

[shoebilly]

I would be replacing your CID sensor - it is around $35 and for the first time takes maybe 20 min to change.

Doug

He's high if he thinks a CPS is $35. I think there is a good chance this is a CPS problem. This will leave you stranded... A pedestiran! subject to a tow.The going price at your FRIENDLY Neighborhood mechanic is $275-300. The part alone will cost you twice as much atleast. These are the facts. It could be $400 or more. This is the reality.(i am a mechanic)

 

[SASHO91]

for the second time....

he is refering to the CID NOT THE CPS!!!!!!!!!

Edit:
the CPS is about 70 bucks give or take... and only takes about 45mins to get done... when you know what you are doing.

 

[shoebilly]

The CID will not leave you stranded. If you let the car sit as discribed after running it.. COME ON thats when the cps can quit after the heat sinks into the extremities of the engine. True? No start? A cid is abot $35 but not that easy to change. It would cost you $150 at your FRIENDLY neighborhood garage.

 

[SASHO91]

yes i know it wont....

are you reading what you are typing??????

re-read your posts.....

 

[Jaz2099]

 

[shoebilly]

yes i know it wont....

are you reading what you are typing??????

re-read your posts.....

Taking to me?

 

[shoebilly]

yes i know it wont....

are you reading what you are typing??????

re-read your posts.....

Talking to me?

 

[SASHO91]

oh forget it... nevermind

yes you shoebilly......

 

[Jaz2099]

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/lower60k/lower60k.htm You need to establish the CID = Camshft sensor CPS = Crank sensor

 

[SASHO91]

Shotimer is refering to the CID.... NOT the CPS which you are refering to.....

The CID is roughly 35 bucks... and takes only a few minutes to change. Especially on an ATX... i can get it out i a couple minutes.. an MTX is just a tad harder...

The CPS is roughly 70 bucks, and takes atleast 40 mins to get done... as long as you know what your doing....

I have done both in the mentioned time....

 

[shoebilly]

Shotimer is refering to the CID.... NOT the CPS which you are refering to.....

The CID is roughly 35 bucks... and takes only a few minutes to change. Especially on an ATX... i can get it out i a couple minutes.. an MTX is just a tad harder...

The CPS is roughly 70 bucks, and takes atleast 40 mins to get done... as long as you know what your doing....

I have done both in the mentioned time....

You assume that a new person to the forum has the tools nessesary and the Knowlege to to do this feat is as small as it may seem to most. IT IS NOT SMALL. It requires moving the PS resivoir & I alwasys move the engine dampner...This job sucks too.

 

[SASHO91]

Yes..... this is what i was getting at in the first place...

the CID.... the CAMSHAFT sensor...... is really simple... a few minutes... one connector, 2 bolts... IIRC, they are 7mm bolts...

as for the CPS. yes that is more involed and yes you do need to be inclined mechanicaly.


do you see what i was talking about???? Go to your post.. post number 6. re-read what SHotimer typed.. he typed.. the CID...

then you respond with the CPS.....

 

[Racer X]

http://home.earthlink.net/~rcm_automotive/id14.html

CPS - 59.99 at RCM
CID - 35.99 at RCM

Time to replace CID - 20 minutes including the mandatory beer break.
Time to replace CPS - 45 - 90 minutes depending on skill level and tools available. And the mandatory beer break.

shoebilly, the fact that the OP is here asking questions and asking for advice, and that he knows how to use a SnapOn Scanner MT2500 (btw I love those things. My friend has one... coolest scantool ever!), is a pretty fair indicator that he might be capable of doing the repair. And if he's still iffy, the link to the SHOPhoenix tutorial:

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/lower60k/lower60k.htm

which was posted above should be sufficient to remove all doubt.

A CPS replacement isn't an oil change, but it isn't a tranny or a 3.2 swap either.

All the same, in all likelyhood, given the OP's symptoms this is a CID (camshaft, if you haven't been following) sensor failure. His problem isn't intermittant stalling, but difficulty starting after driving, which in experience is usually caused by a bad CID sensor. Also, check the CID sensor housing for oil contamination. If there is oil. it's a good indication that the cam seal there is failing and requires replacement. Excessive oil in the housing can foul the sensor reading can cause similar symptoms.

 

[SHOtimer]

He's high if he thinks a CPS is $35. I think there is a good chance this is a CPS problem. This will leave you stranded... A pedestiran! subject to a tow.The going price at your FRIENDLY Neighborhood mechanic is $275-300. The part alone will cost you twice as much atleast. These are the facts. It could be $400 or more. This is the reality.(i am a mechanic)

First off - I typed "CID", not CPS. That would not make me high. However, it would make you wrong.

Second, to replace the "CID" sensor in an ATX SHO (which is the type that sillysho has, he incase you weren't reading is the one who has the problem) takes about 10 mintues, all you need is a flat head screw driver and a 5.5mm socket with a small rachet. This would be a simple easy repair that anybody with "basic" tools can acheive.

Third, yes, this is reality. On that point I think we all agree.

Fourth, - you need to read threads and completely understand the problem being discussed, the terms/parts being discussed, and the car which it applies to (in this case an ATX - which doesn't have a roll dampner and in which the motor sits more forward so the CID is very easy to change) before you respond with a post of your own.

Fifth, these are the facts. :corn:

Doug