Help! Please help! Brake issues!

[SHOZRJUSTBETTER]

Hi Guys,

I just purchased a brake kit for my 99 which included new front 13 inch rotors with Taurus Bolt Pattern and OEM size rears and pads from Ford Performance Specialists.

I had the kit installed professionally by a local shop, the fronts are Cobra the rears stock with upgraded carbon ceramic pads. The cobras have been on for three years or so.

So when I picked my car up today the braking was about 50 percent of what I expected, and the pedal engagement was far lower and required far more effort than I've ever experienced?

What could this be? They claim they didn't bleed the lines, they said they didn't need to. I know the Cobra calipers are supposed to be installed on the opposite sides R on L and L on R and the brackets should stay on their respective sides. Is there anything that I or they are not thinking of?

What could the possible issues be.
Air in the lines. Improperly installed. The brakes work, just not as they should with this setup, and the performance is in my opinion half of what it was with the same exact setup that I was merely replacing?

Please help, I'm at my wits end with this car and the money I've been spending on it.

I could really use any help, thank you.

 

[nothingtoseehere]

If they did not break any connections then they do not need to bleed anything. I am confused in what you bought/had done. Just a rotor and pad change?

 

[SHOZRJUSTBETTER]

Brakes

In 2006 I had Brian King (Ohio) Install a Completely new brake system. New Cobra Brakes and Pads in Front and 13 inch Rotors, New OEM Calipers and Ceramic Pads and Rotors in the rear, Stainless Lines and New E-Brake System.

I was replacing this setup with new rotors and pads because they were in need of replacement due to rust. So I purchased new 13 inch rotors and ceramic pads for the front and new OEM rotors and ceramic pads for the rear.

The setup is installed however there is a big issue. The pedal feel lacks responsiveness and requires a lot more effort and the engagement is much lower down than it was before, i.e. the brakes would start working much sooner when depressing the brake pedal than they do now.

If you want to give me a call I would appreciate it, I'm in the middle of having a nervous breakdown.

781 706 3177

 

[Ishodu]

Sounds like the first thing that needs to be done is bleed the brakes and make sure there is no air in there. It kind of sounds like there is. There is a section in the "how do I section" do help you if you need help.

 

[SHOZRJUSTBETTER]

Yes, just rotors and pads, and I would say the performance is 50 percent of what it was. Before the braking was more performance than I needed, now its worse than a regular taurus.

 

[wymjym]

If I had paid someone to do the work and it wasn't right, my 1st thought would be for them to make it right. If there is more to it than that, then figuring out what is wrong is next on my list, which would include not properly seating brake pads, grease on the rotors, etc.
YMMV
wj

 

[nothingtoseehere]

It does sound like air is in the lines. If they did not crack the system though, there shouldn't be. Hows the brake fluid level?

 

[SHOZRJUSTBETTER]

I will check brake fluid level and get back to you. I'm bringing it back to the shop tomorrow. I am going to request they bleed the lines and check the seating of the pads. Is there any damage that can result from air in the lines?

What else could cause a lowering of the brake pedal engagement? And such a drastic reduction in performance? I've heard the e-brake can keep the pads properly aligned is this true? It's more than a simple fix, I used to work on my cars but time and living situation do not allow for it. My dad likes to throw away parts thinking they're junk.

Anyways. The never-ending SHO saga continues for another SHO Guy.

p.s. This forum marks SHO as a spelling error, blasphemy. Thanks for all who responded I'll keep you posted.

 

[venom]

I will check brake fluid level and get back to you. I'm bringing it back to the shop tomorrow. I am going to request they bleed the lines and check the seating of the pads. Is there any damage that can result from air in the lines?

What else could cause a lowering of the brake pedal engagement? And such a drastic reduction in performance? I've heard the e-brake can keep the pads properly aligned is this true? It's more than a simple fix, I used to work on my cars but time and living situation do not allow for it. My dad likes to throw away parts thinking they're junk.

Anyways. The never-ending SHO saga continues for another SHO Guy.

p.s. This forum marks SHO as a spelling error, blasphemy. Thanks for all who responded I'll keep you posted.

Likely your browser (firefox I bet) is calling SHO a spelling error (right click on it and add it to your dictionary)...

But back to the topic. If you put on ceramic pads and you had metallic or semi metallics before the braking performance certainly could change for the worse just due to the changed friction material. But if your pedal is spongier than it was before then that generally points to air in the lines or calipers.

 

[bacernate]

I would have to say air in the lines or frozen slide pins since you live in rustville usa. Probably the rear bracket pins, very common. Also the grease they use in rebuilt calipers is very poor, have had lots of them as comebacks in my shop a year later with seized pins from poor lubricant.

 

[NWGRN94MTX]

Ask them if they cycled the ABS pump before they started. Also ask them if they opened the bleeders when they compresses the caliper pistons.

 

[SHOZ123]

Are the bleeder screws on the front calipers on the top?

 

[93rev2sev]

Ask them if they cycled the ABS pump before they started. Also ask them if they opened the bleeders when they compresses the caliper pistons.

Yep.

Whenever you install new pads, you have to compress the caliper. That means the fluid that's been sitting inside the caliper will be displaced.

Since the caliper was full of fluid and that fluid needs to go somewhere, it goes back into the lines.

Now you have old nasty fluid in the lines. Bleed those suckers and then bleed em again.

 

[SHOZRJUSTBETTER]

You Guys Won't Believe What Happened

Ok, so I took my car back to the shop my friend recommended. We took it for a test drive and as I stated the pedal felt spongy as one person described it. When we put it on the lift the mechanic noticed some bubbles coming from the caliper, but stated they were not his responsibility because he didn't break the lines and air couldn't have gotten in there from him.

At that point I told him to get my car of the "F#@" Lift.

The pads seem to be seated properly. My cousin who used to work on fighter jets helped me bleed the lines a few times and put new fluid in there. Air in the lines was all it was. Brakes like a champ now with the Ford Performance kit on there.

Didn't need to go down this way, but I forgot to mention the mechanic stated it was the parts that were at fault and because he didn't buy the parts it wasn't his problem or responsibility even though I mentioned air in the lines about a hundred times. He also said the pads didn't come in a box so they must be inferior quality. WTF.

This guy totally just abdicated his responsiblity to a customer who just had his brakes serviced and weren't working properly. Good think I have a mechanical cousin.

Thanks for the feedback, you guys led me to the right problem area. The brake lines.

 

[jonmon6691]

Ok, so I took my car back to the shop my friend recommended. We took it for a test drive and as I stated the pedal felt spongy as one person described it. When we put it on the lift the mechanic noticed some bubbles coming from the caliper, but stated they were not his responsibility because he didn't break the lines and air couldn't have gotten in there from him.

At that point I told him to get my car of the "F#@" Lift.

The pads seem to be seated properly. My cousin who used to work on fighter jets helped me bleed the lines a few times and put new fluid in there. Air in the lines was all it was. Brakes like a champ now with the Ford Performance kit on there.

Didn't need to go down this way, but I forgot to mention the mechanic stated it was the parts that were at fault and because he didn't buy the parts it wasn't his problem or responsibility even though I mentioned air in the lines about a hundred times. He also said the pads didn't come in a box so they must be inferior quality. WTF.

This guy totally just abdicated his responsiblity to a customer who just had his brakes serviced and weren't working properly. Good think I have a mechanical cousin.

Thanks for the feedback, you guys led me to the right problem area. The brake lines.

Glad its working, that's a sweet braking setup. In my experience, mechanics HATE installing customer parts, and will not stand by the parts (obviously) or their their work (WTF.) If you saw bubbles, you may have a leaking brake line which could cause these symptoms to come back.

ps. Come on dude, grammar, seriously. I don't like being a ****, but it hurts to read.

 

[SHOZRJUSTBETTER]

I guess the above post might make it seem like I was quick to judge the mechanic so maybe I'll explain it a little better.

I took it back to the mechanic after talking to him on the phone about the issue. On the phone he was apologetic and said to bring it back it.

I brought it back the next day, I started to explain the sponginess in the brakes and how I believed it was air in the lines. (There was never an issue with air in the lines before, the pedal felt fine.) My reason for replacement was some slight chatter from the rear brakes and the fact the rotors were getting a bit rusty from 3 years in New England weather.

We went for a test drive, I believe he felt something, he said there was a slight shimmy in the wheel and he immediately went into protection mode, it wasn't his fault, not his parts etc. etc.

He pulls the car into the shop to put it on the lift all the while still explaining why the parts are the issue. The pads didn't come in a box they were wrapped in plastic wrap, the rotors are bad, the new pads use different material than the old ones. He takes a look at the passenger front Cobra caliper and says he sees small bubbles coming out of the caliper. But basically didn't say he would do anything because he didn't break into the lines he stated.

So that's when I went ape on the guy. The brakes were working fine before minus slight rear chatter, and the brakes engaged properly. He returned the car to me in unsafe working order in my opinion.

So after we exchanged pleasantries and I brought the car home, I called my cousin the fighter jet mechanic and we went to work bleeding the lines and now it works like it did before albeit with slightly better performance of the new rotors and pads (which should improve even more with break in).

I think I got so upset because of shelling out money and such an integral safety component not working and him not seeming to care.

One thing I did that you guys might want to know about is I had the non-contact areas of the rotors painted by FPS with High Temp VHT Header Paint flat aluminum. I hope it helps with the rust, paint seems to be holding up so far, may need a reapplication in a few months.