gen 3 subframe - 93 Auto

[ohioshodude]

hello all..

working on getting my 93 back together and need some advice.. i want to upgrade to the gen III subframe and want to know if a slo 3.0l frame will swap over without any/slight modding.. there are tons of topics on the MTX but i couldn't find one on the ATX.

thanks!

 

[Mr Anonymous]

AFAIK, nobody has done it yet. You'd be the first.

First job is to get a Gen 2 ATX and a Gen 3 subframe side-by-side and compare measurements, especially the position and heights of the motor mounts and tranny mount.

 

[ohioshodude]

really? lol shock! i figured someone had done it. i figured since the 3.0l atx in the gen III and the gen II use the same motor mounts ect... it would swap over fairly simple.. guess this will be a trial and error thing! now to find a subframe!

 

[ManySHOs]

Can you post a picture of an ATX subframe? I forget what they look like. I could tell you if the mounts are approximately in the correct spot but the measurements would be up to you.

Ian

 

[ohioshodude]

sure i can go measure mine.. its on the floor in the garage!

edit.. here ya go..



they are from the center of the holes.. maybe someone can measure a gen III subframe, see it its near the same.

 

[rudedog]

I would measure mine again, but it's already in the car. If I remember right they were damn near the same.


http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50805

 

[ManySHOs]

I'll try to measure mine today if there's time.

Ian

 

[zak]

Looks like the forward motor mount would need weld/fab on the Gen III subframe. Look for a '99 SLO one. There are many little gotchas on this swap, including the need for longer caliper mount bolts to work with the Gen III spindles/knuckles.

 

[SHOspazz92]

AFAIK, nobody has done it yet. You'd be the first.

First job is to get a Gen 2 ATX and a Gen 3 subframe side-by-side and compare measurements, especially the position and heights of the motor mounts and tranny mount.

We actually have a member who has a V8 Engine/Tranny stuffed in to a Gen II. I can't recall his screen name but there was video's of it.

-Sam

 

[ManySHOs]

We actually have a member who has a V8 Engine/Tranny stuffed in to a Gen II. I can't recall his screen name but there was video's of it.

-Sam

Yeah, but he used the entire gen3 subframe too. He might even be running the SARC struts.

Ian

 

[rudedog]

How would you NOT use the entire subframe, it's one solid piece, save for the control arms.

I used the g3 rack also, although it's not a ZF-unit.

 

[ManySHOs]

Ok, I just got some dimensions. Sorry for the cell phone camera pic and MS Paint editing (it's almost embarrassing -photoshop and the digi cams are at the apartment). The height of the rear mount platform ~ 6.25" from the bottom of the subframe rail to the top of the platform. This is a 98 SLO subframe. All measurements are estimates. I couldn't be too precise with the mounts still in place. If I wasn't in my work clothes, I'd remove them and get more exact measurements. The 10.5" refers to the distance between the front motor mount hole and the center of the SF bushing which didn't quite make the picture.



Jon, you are correct about the "gotchas". For anyone who does this, make sure you use all of the appropriate hardware from the same year as the donor subframe. The reason the caliper bolts are longer is because the ears on the aluminum spindles are thicker than the 94-95 steel versions.

Ian

 

[ManySHOs]

How would you NOT use the entire subframe, it's one solid piece, save for the control arms.

I used the g3 rack also, although it's not a ZF-unit.

Sam mentioned that there is a member who has a V8 in a gen2. I was only pointing out that this swap did not use the V6 subframe, it used the V8 subframe. There probably wasn't much concern about where the mounts where because the engine was (I would imagine) a direct bolt in.


Ian

 

[rudedog]

I see, sorry Ian. Is there that much difference between the v8 and the v6 subframes?

 

[SHO92]

The main difference(benefit) is the change in suspensio geometry.

 

[ManySHOs]

I see, sorry Ian. Is there that much difference between the v8 and the v6 subframes?

No problem!

Bill just nailed the main advantage of a gen3 subframe vs gen1/2. Additionally, you can use the much better ZF steering rack. (better than the gen1/2 junk).

Ian

 

[ohioshodude]

finally got a gen III subframe. looks like all frame mounts line up (we knew this) and that teh rear mount and the tranny mount are in the exact same place. but........ front mount is way out to the front and right from a gen II subframe. but from what i can tell it shouldn't be too much work to get this to work. drill new hole and maybe cut a slot out of the frame so the mount can sit flush. we shall see..

 

[92sho16]

That looks like you would have to to similar mod that you do with the mtx which is drill a hole in the frame and cut a whole and insert some tubing on the under side, with the mtx you have to raise up the mounting surface so make sure you check the depth of the front motor mount mating surface relative to the frame mounting points.

 

[Ishodu]

Make sure you measure the "Z" axis when taking these measurements as well it might not be as easy as taking measurements on the x and y axis.

 

[ohioshodude]

Make sure you measure the "Z" axis when taking these measurements as well it might not be as easy as taking measurements on the x and y axis.

that would be a given. what i find is that the sway bar mounts are a bit different,(top is recessed a bit) the front motor mount hole is off and lower then the gen II, and the angle of the rack mounting points are a bit different. I need to get the controlling arms on and then the spindles to make sure all that is the same. so far not too bad.

wether this is worth it or not..