Expensive lesson; Part 1

[lancSHO]

Yesterday I was driving my g/f and 2 family members around in my SHO [because that many people wouldn't fit in a del Sol] and she wants to stop at a local retailer to get a gift for my aunt. I see the sky is very dark over to the southwest & know rain is imminent. So we go into the store & are shopping when the rain begins. We're talking about that heavy rain that 'comes up from underneath'; people pulling off of the roads, staying inside & not going to their cars etc.

So I do the best thing I could for the time being......buy an umbrella. After the purchase I was around the growing lake in the parking lot & get to the SHO. [Keep in mind I have a CAI on it with the pickup near the lower grille opening.] She starts to life no problem. My gf calls & says they want to be picked up & get going because we're running late. I pull out and, getting the wrond mindset, drive into the lake. The SHO dies, at which point I put 2 and 2 together and think...."CAI, deep water..&^%$##@*&!!!!! :cuss: Again, still having the wrong mindset, I restart the car to try and backout. It starts, moves 2 feet & stalls again. After a third attempt at restarting, the lights in the cluster just go dim when the starter tries to engage; I now realize what I've done. I call her [she's standing outside of the store] & tell her I'm stuck & the motor's is toast, she says not to move & she'll call 911. I say NO, I will call them. I get off of the phone with her & call them on the non emergency line and tell the dispatcher the situation and that I would need 1 or 2 cops out here to pull my car out. She obliges and says they will be there soon.

Then I hear sirens. I look over to see the chief from the local fire company speeding in my direction. I call my gf back and she tells me she called 911. In the end, a very nice couple in a Hummer H2 towed me & the dead SHO out of the water. I never got to meet the guy driving it, but I am in debt to him. The water was nearly up to the axles and he towed my out like my car weighed nothing.

So after waiting 2 hours for a rollback, the SHO gets towed to my house where my brother & I [he is a BMW tech] start tearing the intake manifolds off. The front four have no real signs of water damage, but then we get to see the inside of the surge tank. I could have opened a swimming pool with the amount of water that was resting in it. He runs to get his digi cam to get pics to show his biddies at work. I just laugh it off & keep working. Once all of the runners are off, the cylinder on the rear bank, passenger side is fillied with water; the secondary butterfly was completely submerged. I got the lower intake mani umbolted & started to disconnect the injector harnesses and they're making a rather loud 'click' when the tabs are depressed. I found out afterwards that they have all broken, due to heat & age I guess.

I haven't gone inside the engine, but I am considering my options. First off, I cannot perform this swap where I live. Second, I am wondering where to buy another engine from. I know Kirk sells them, but $2800 is out of the question right now. I know a guy who has 2 or 3 wrecked V8 SHOs [all with at least 90K on them] and he's is willing to sell me a complete engine for $900, and he knows two of the engines have welded cams and is in Harrisburg, but offers no warranty like Kirk [albeit limited] does.

So what do you guys think? My bro thinks I might have a bent valve or two, I'm think it's much worse than that, like bent rods, maybe a cracked piston or two & a trashed block. After we got it home, my bro attempted to restart the car and all we got was a loud 'CLICK' when the starter engaged, which is why I'm thinking this block is trash. If anyone can help/shed some light for me I would greatly appreciate it. And if you have any spare parts you'd like to sell, let me know. Thanks. It's funny; I had always thought the first engine I would rebuild was going to be a small block chevy, but it looks like it might be a big block Duratec! :laugh_ti: But right now I'm kinda.....

 

[NiNeTy Fo SHO]

Sorry to hear man.

This is one reason why I never figured out why ppl want to have CAI's down so low to the ground.

Good luck to ya

 

[Mr Anonymous]

You could try filing an insurance claim if you have full coverage.

 

[Mr. SHO]

I would consider the engine a total loss. If you have the energy/time, go ahead and clean it out and do an inspection, but usually hydrolock will do a heckuva lot more than just bend some valves. I'd be looking at the pistons, wrist pins, rods, crank, and block very closely before deciding to put it all back together and run it. There's an awful lot of impact when you bring an engine to an IMMEDIATE stop, even if it's only idling when it happens. 800 rpm to 0 rpm in one half crank rotation... ouch!

What's done is done. Call the insurance company and see if you can get the $900 + some labor reimbursement and just go w/ one of the 90K+ welded motors you have access to (that's actually a Godsend!) Maybe check the rod bearings and valve shims before you put it in.

 

[lancSHO]

Thank you Mr. SHO, I was thinking just that. I figure while the engine would be out I could wrap the rear wiring harness with the same material Kirk does [if he could help me with it], replace all the coils, put in new plugs and check the rod bearings & valve shims [A first for me!]. I also looked at my plugs that came out of the car with 69K miles on them [57K from the previous owner]. Carbon buildup everywhere. One plug [front bank, closest to tranny] even had a small showing of white powder on it [detonation?]. I think that maybe my original engine was in worse condition than I had thought.

I also checked the coolant overflow tank [forgot to mention that before]. I can tell ya at least one of the head gaskets sacrificed itself to save the motor [oil mixed in with and floating in the coolant]. Does this mean that I also need a new radiator? Water pump too? I know a tranny line goes into the radiator [I'm sure it doesn't mix with the coolant], but should I look that over as well? I suppose I should just go buy a magnafying glass to really look everything over, and maybe some display cases & wall frames. Some of this stuff I'm gonna keep for SHO & tell! LOL.

If my insurance contributes anything, maybe I could spring for some aftermarket components. The car WAS scheduled to go to a local exhaust shop & get a 2.5" 3rd cat back pipe with dual Flowmaster 40's on it, but let's just say I *cancelled* that.

I take it that getting another motor & doing a re-bore, getting custom pistions & rods [maybe with a longer stroke?] would be a waste of time? What are your opinions of this idea? Maybe [just maybe] I could have the first 3.5L V8 SHO? With this already being an interference motor, how much could the stroke be increase before it would be too much? And, would the stock cams flow the air needed for these possible upgrades? Any input requested/appreciated.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Your best best is just to find another motor. We looked into punching out the jugs, and there's very little meat to make it feasible, nevermind the cost of re-sleeving if you could. About the most you can go is 1mm over, which is going to gain almost no displacement. Our machinist broke right through at just under 4mm over. Forged pistons, while neato and great if you're going to go F/I, really won't add much to an N/A V8SHO motor, except an additional ~$1200 or so to the rebuild price tag. Plus, there aren't any HG's off-the-shelf for more than a 1mm overbore. A stroker is a neat idea and one we've tossed around a bit, but again, it's probably about a $3000 minimum investment to make it happen (on top of the cost of the motor). I wouldn't use the crank, rods, pistons, etc. from a hydro-locked motor at all, nevermind in a stroker. If you really wanna go nuts, best bet is just to get a good motor in there, and either plumb in a bottle or strap on a blower. Either will give more for the dollar than trying to overbore or stroke it.

The cooling system should be fine, just give it a real good flushing before running a new motor. Your plug condition sounds about normal for 69K. While Ford says the plugs are good for 100K, in reality they are around a 50K plug. If you pull them, clean them, and re-gap them, they're probably good for 100K, but for $30 more it's just as easy to replace them.

For the harness insulation, you'll need to get 14 inches of 1800 deg. F 1.25" ID silicone-impregnated fire sleeve. The shortest length we can buy it in is 10 feet, at about $18 per foot. Really good speed shops usually have this is stock or can get it within a couple of days.

If you get a welded replacement motor for $900 like you were saying and you get the car and motor up to us, we install motors for a flat price of $600.

See what the insurance company says, but don't tell them how much you've found a motor for. Hollanders lists the price starting at about $1800 for a motor, plus ~12 hours labor.

 

[lancSHO]

The problem is I've told the insurance company that I can find a motor for around $1200. I did this for one real reason; so they don't total it. I've received one call [and got very upset with the woman on the other end] from the insurance company asking if it was worth putting another motor in there. To put it nicely, I was irate at the question alone. She understood later that there was no way this SHO was going to the scrapyard. I've talked with 3 insurance people already and they all [including my agent] asked what an SHO is. Not that it doesn't show in their records that it states 'V8 Sedan'. :shakehead Some people I tell ya.

I will probably go with the lower priced engine. I want to try & get to the motor first, as there are things I'd like to do with it first [if the dealer would let me]. I'd like to clean the intake manifold......or I could supply to dealer with the freshly cleaned one I have. I would like to wrap the wiring harness as well and remove the shafts & butterflys of the secondaries [as opposed to zip tying them open]. Anyone agree/disagree with that?

 

[lndshark]

Maybe a little off topic, but i swear I read a decarboning procedure on shotimes.com years ago that involved using one of the vac hoses off the pleneum to suck in a combination of chemicals and then a certain ammount of water.

Am I nuts? I swear I read it there though. What is the difference between what happned here and that. A question for the SHO gods.

 

[SHOZ123]

Yes there is a procedure for sucking in water and as it flashes into steam it loosens the carbon from thermal shock. Not something I would do on a engine with surge tank that can collect water. It is done by supplying small amounts of water to a running hot engine.

The difference is the amount of water that is ingested. With hydolocking the cylinders draw in more water that the compressed cylinder chamber can hold. Water, being non-compressible, will transfer the inertial energy of the moving piston to the rod and crank when it hits the full combustion chamber. Might as well have the cylinder full of steel.

 

[jimtash]

Man, that's a crappy way to **** an engine.

 

[lancSHO]

You're not kidding!

 

[Mr. SHO]

Everytime I read that SHOtimes article about the "Seafoam + water" procedure I CRINGE. I wonder how many people have destroyed engines by dumping Seafoam or other liquids into the intake stream just a LITTLE bit too fast?

 

[lancSHO]

The damage has been accessed.

The cylinder [passenger side-most, rear bank] that was flooded up over the secondary butterfly had a broken con rod, and I mean broken. I was told by the tech working on it...."The rod is still connected at the crankshaft, still connected at the wrist pin & the rest was laying in the water/oil mix in the oil pan".... He also told me that the MAS may need replaced [I figured that much] and that the O2 sensors may also need replaced. When I asked why, he told my he unbolted to downpipes and water poured from the cats. If I need new cats, I may possibly spring for Random Tech cats [post if you think otherwise]. He also stated from his experience, the block is probably trash as I had expected. BUT, keep reading......

Well, good news!

My insurance adjuster called me and told me the car was going to be totalled because the replacement motor he priced from Jasper was $7800, before the labor costs [Ford wants $16,000 for a new SHO motor and $2000 apiece for heads; how they justify that I dunno. ] I had told him I knew a gentleman that is well known if the SHO community and rebuilds these engines and sells them for much less, around $3000. He asks for his name & number, which I quickly gave to him. I get a call a few minutes later from him again & he asks if not having a warranty on the engine is ok with me; I told him I was ok with it as long as I could get my car back. After that, I called Kirk personally to make sure the motor heading down to me has a set of BBB's on it!

Hopefully I'll get the SHO back soon.

 

[DavidT]

see if Kirk could squeeze in a Vortech or Zex kit

 

[lancSHO]

Oh I know! I want a SHO Fast kit in the worst way. After my other car is paid off this winter, I should be able to save another $300+ a month....hehehehe.

 

[Mr. SHO]

$300 a month won't even be enough to keep a blown SHO running. Think tires and gas!

Glad to hear you got good news from the insurance people. You'll be happy with your NESHO engine, I'm sure. BBBs sound like a good investment, too.

 

[ArkanSHO]

My ex-wife hydro-locked Scirocco back when we were still married and living up in Algonquin driving through one of those instant lakes at a mall in Carpentersville. The Scirocco has the air intake low behind the bumper. Not seeing the water when I came to rescue the car I didn't understand why it wouldn't crank over. I thought that the starter motor was shorted out so I proceded to get my wife to push it with the other car around the parking lot until I got it to bump start since it was a stick. Of course it took a speed of nearly 35 mph and 3rd gear to get the engine to turn over and even at that the wheels were still skidding when I first let out the clutch. The real reason it wouldn't crank of course was because the cylinders were filled with water. When it did start the car ran like crap. Lucky for me the only initial problem was that one sparkplug blew completely out of the head and two of the others were very loose and less then one thread from popping themselves. The oilpan was of course filled with grey-goo and the paper air cleaner disintergrated. I drove that car for another 245,000 miles before I pulled the heads to discover I had also burned a valve as a result of it cooling kind of fast, but it still ran fine. Ran better with a fresh valve though. Finally retired the VW with 514,000 on the odometer and original engine.

 

[DHMag]

Everytime I read that SHOtimes article about the "Seafoam + water" procedure I CRINGE. I wonder how many people have destroyed engines by dumping Seafoam or other liquids into the intake stream just a LITTLE bit too fast?

on carbureated engines, start vehicle, raise idle to about 2000RPM, and slowly pour water into the venturi. engine will bog but at every cost, you dont want it to die. ive performed this trick several times on old cars with success.

 

[Mr. SHO]

Yeah, I know you can do it on many engines, but the SHO has a surge tank, which can very easily collect a substantial amount of liquid. I really wouldn't want all that liquid dumping into the engine all at once, later on at WOT.