Ethanol and observations

[High on Ethanol]

Many of you run e30 so this only mildly concerns you. I noticed over the course of almost a year, the difference between E50 and e85 isn't much as far as performance goes, unless you are really pushing the limits. Also noticed the sheetz e85 only drops to e75 in winter. As far as difference in data logs, the AFR is the main thing that changes with LTFTs, timing also changes by roughly 1degree.

The main reason for making this thread is to bring to attention the fact that no tuners adjust the lower rpm tables unless operating in WOT mode. This makes you realize that unless you are at least 70% deep in the throttle, your car isn't much over a stocker.

Why don't tuners increase the low to mid range power? Wouldn't drivability be more fun? Just too much work? @FiveLeeter918 for the rapid response.

Also @mattr66 do you know if the flex fuel tables on non flex fuel vehicles can be enabled and operational? I am asking you because if anyone's tried it, it would be you. The timing Thor, the gearshifting Gaia, the octanium Odin!

Any all comments welcome! Let's learn something about this wild wonder!

 

[mattr66]

E85 mbt at part throttle is less than e10 by a degree or 2 . What are you describing about the low-end?

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[802SHO]

I think there’s some lazy peddle feel in mine. Mid throttle doesn’t feel responsive enough. I’ve experienced very responsive peddle feel in other cars that are triple slower than mine. I agree there isn’t enough low end power. It’s boost or eco apparently.

 

[802SHO]

Responsiveness feels faster even if it’s not. I’d prefer feel faster over all things equal.

 

[mattr66]

Responsiveness feels faster even if it’s not. I’d prefer feel faster over all things equal.

Sounds like we are talking about two different things. Are we simply talking about pedal response or are we talking about engine dynamics on a different fuel?

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[High on Ethanol]

E85 mbt at part throttle is less than e10 by a degree or 2 . What are you describing about the low-end?

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Pedal pressed below 50% for example , I'm not noticing much improvements but extremely noticeable after it tips over that 50% marker to say 51%.

Is it true that tuners don't tweak driver demand(among other things including Fuel enrichment / torque tables /etc.) below half throttle/low load? If so, why?

 

[High on Ethanol]

I think there’s some lazy peddle feel in mine. Mid throttle doesn’t feel responsive enough. I’ve experienced very responsive peddle feel in other cars that are triple slower than mine. I agree there isn’t enough low end power. It’s boost or eco apparently.

I'm not sure how much pedal mapping can be done in the SHO, it lacks a lot of the options of other platforms.

I've remapped all modes on my truck for better feel. Especially sport mode where it drastically ramps up past 50%.

 

[High on Ethanol]

E85 mbt at part throttle is less than e10 by a degree or 2 . What are you describing about the low-end?

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I ran almost entirely e83 to e88 all year until winter when it dropped off to e72 to e75. I didn't run any ethanol most of the winter due to extended cranking on startup and lack of information about how low is too low on a pure e85 tune. Well I started data logging and testing being careful and monitoring knock extremely close and there wasn't any ever.... But I noticed my timing was lower across the range about 1degree on average and my fuel trims shot up about 17%.

Just curious about why the data logs were identical between different tuners below say half throttle. It seems they run almost stock for a majority of low end cruising tables.

 

[mattr66]

Lots of pedal mapping is available but I don't change between E30 and normal E10. I guess I'm still not understanding your question when the difference between different fuel blends commands the same torque from the engine vs pedal position.

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[mattr66]

I ran almost entirely e83 to e88 all year until winter when it dropped off to e72 to e75. I didn't run any ethanol most of the winter due to extended cranking on startup and lack of information about how low is too low on a pure e85 tune. Well I started data logging and testing being careful and monitoring knock extremely close and there wasn't any ever.... But I noticed my timing was lower across the range about 1degree on average and my fuel trims shot up about 17%.

Just curious about why the data logs were identical between different tuners below say half throttle. It seems they run almost stock for a majority of low end cruising tables.

Once you reach MBT timing there is no reason to advance timing further and the knock sensors will stop adding timing as well. And higher ethanol content burns faster than straight gasoline all else being equal so it will arrive at MBT timing sooner degree-wise all else being equal.

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[High on Ethanol]

Lots of pedal mapping is available but I don't change between E30 and normal E10. I guess I'm still not understanding your question when the difference between different fuel blends commands the same torque from the engine vs pedal position.

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My question was have you enabled flex fuel in non flex fuel vehicles? Did it work?

My second question was, do tuners modify the driver demand/torque tables for say 1200 to 2000rpm?

Thanks for the quick response and information

 

[High on Ethanol]

Once you reach MBT timing there is no reason to advance timing further and the knock sensors will stop adding timing as well. And higher ethanol content burns faster than straight gasoline all else being equal so it will arrive at MBT timing sooner degree-wise all else being equal.

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This helps a lot, Ford seems extremely complex with the way the mapped points work. I'm not sure how you even know which ones would be used without logging them in different scenarios.

In my particular application, I see mostly 0,1,2, 6, 7, 14, and OP mapped points reaching 100% or close to it.

With less than 3% on the other mapped points.

Also, cobbtuner in gearhead future or nah?

 

[mattr66]

This helps a lot, Ford seems extremely complex with the way the mapped points work. I'm not sure how you even know which ones would be used without logging them in different scenarios.

In my particular application, I see mostly 0,1,2, 6, 7, 14, and OP mapped points reaching 100% or close to it.

With less than 3% on the other mapped points.

Also, cobbtuner in gearhead future or nah?

We have Cobb for 19-20 raptor now, they don't have support for the transverse. I like my pedals to be stockish for the first 1/4 throttle so you don't accidentally rear end the car in front of you at the stoplight.

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[FiveLeeter918]

Spark tables usually remain the same but the changes for tip in and mild throttle is changed via VCT. Not always the case because it sometimes produces knock during tip in but in those customers asking for OPX, we enable this.

 

[mattr66]

Spark tables usually remain the same but the changes for tip in and mild throttle is changed via VCT. Not always the case because it sometimes produces knock during tip in but in those customers asking for OPX, we enable this.

I make my tuning as close to atkinson cycle as possible at light part throttle because that's where the fuel economy comes from.

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[High on Ethanol]

We have Cobb for 19-20 raptor now, they don't have support for the transverse. I like my pedals to be stockish for the first 1/4 throttle so you don't accidentally rear end the car in front of you at the stoplight.

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Yes I messed with below 1/4 throttle briefly and turned my pedal into a light switch in an open area, luckily.

Since then it's 50percent and up mainly, except sport mode where it's about 25percent and up.