Does anybody know if the ecoboost motors are like the 08/09 coblats ss? The pcm on a hot day will up the psi on the turbo so the car will make 260hp, and also lower it on a cold day so the car will only make 260hp. So any mods you do are worthless until you get a tune because the computer will limit the hp?:thankyou:
Ecoboost pcm cuts power??
- Thread starter shoftw
- Start date
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Mr Anonymous
Tire Wall
Have you seen the dyno graphs?
The power/torque "curves" are extremely manipulated by the PCM strategy.
But, understand that PCM's aren't dynos. They command certain spark/fuel/boost/etc. parameters based on things like air temp, barometric pressure, volumetric efficiency, and so forth in the calibration, they don't have the ability to just hit a magic HP number and then say "no more".
That's the way all computer controlled cars have always been. Simple "bolt on" mods like optimizing intake and exhaust efficiency can still result in increased power output. Other mods that "fool" the PCM into thinking that conditions are different from what they actually are can also do the same thing.
Ultimately, re-calibrating the PCM via tuning is the way to go, and that's already being done on the new SHO.
The power/torque "curves" are extremely manipulated by the PCM strategy.
But, understand that PCM's aren't dynos. They command certain spark/fuel/boost/etc. parameters based on things like air temp, barometric pressure, volumetric efficiency, and so forth in the calibration, they don't have the ability to just hit a magic HP number and then say "no more".
That's the way all computer controlled cars have always been. Simple "bolt on" mods like optimizing intake and exhaust efficiency can still result in increased power output. Other mods that "fool" the PCM into thinking that conditions are different from what they actually are can also do the same thing.
Ultimately, re-calibrating the PCM via tuning is the way to go, and that's already being done on the new SHO.
Off Road SHO
Moderator
Now, I'm not a car computer wizard by any stretch of the imagination, but, I'd be willing to bet that they monitor load on a transmission and when it gets too high, they start restricting something, be it fuel, spark timing, air or whatever. It used to be that motor control was just that, but now I think that it is just one control of the whole "health" of the car scenario.
BTW; I absolutely hate drive by wire systems. My F-150 will not give me the throttle position that my right foot demands, only what the computer deems is "survivable" for the tranny. Bah!
Tom
BTW; I absolutely hate drive by wire systems. My F-150 will not give me the throttle position that my right foot demands, only what the computer deems is "survivable" for the tranny. Bah!
Tom
hawkeye18
Sorta cares
Yeah, that ****** me off too - instead of making the tranny strong enough for the engine, let's restrict the engine to protect the tranny!
I could go into a long political diatribe about how the same thing is happening to the whole human race, etc. etc. but I'll just stick with "ford is lazy". They do that with damn near all of their vehicles. Up the engine power, then restrict it... grr
I could go into a long political diatribe about how the same thing is happening to the whole human race, etc. etc. but I'll just stick with "ford is lazy". They do that with damn near all of their vehicles. Up the engine power, then restrict it... grr
1slickRED89
Guest
I think that they do limit the engine short of its potential. they call this the dial-a-torque engine, it makes as much power as the vehicle is intended to have.
but I'm not sure it quite as bad as it being made out. why is it evil to limit power to protect the vehicle? when they make an engine it has to meet a vast variety of requirements, be competitive in terms of HP/liter, low cost to build, last 200K+ miles, start every time at 0F, deflect/limit warranty claim, deflect/limit lawsuit liability. its a long list of requirements and compromising some of that capability for a non-value-add feature such as neck snapping throttle response, or power beyond what is advertised etc in a work truck or any other vehicle, seem like a bad choice.
i think that in some cases manufactures do limit torque to cover up poor performance, like under-spec'ed transmissions, poor calibration practices, poor engine designs etc. for example the Jeep liberty CRD was issued a TSB/recall that they said was going to reduce the torque output to protect the torque converted that they put a plastic stator in, that's pretty bad.
but I'm not sure it quite as bad as it being made out. why is it evil to limit power to protect the vehicle? when they make an engine it has to meet a vast variety of requirements, be competitive in terms of HP/liter, low cost to build, last 200K+ miles, start every time at 0F, deflect/limit warranty claim, deflect/limit lawsuit liability. its a long list of requirements and compromising some of that capability for a non-value-add feature such as neck snapping throttle response, or power beyond what is advertised etc in a work truck or any other vehicle, seem like a bad choice.
i think that in some cases manufactures do limit torque to cover up poor performance, like under-spec'ed transmissions, poor calibration practices, poor engine designs etc. for example the Jeep liberty CRD was issued a TSB/recall that they said was going to reduce the torque output to protect the torque converted that they put a plastic stator in, that's pretty bad.
agreed! our 08 sorento has drive by wire..nothing like a half second delay between the pedal being pushed and the computer realizing it
jedhead
New Member
The Caddy has torque nannies in the ECU programming. Torque is reduced during shifting to increase durability of the transmission and rear end. This torque reduction causes a delay in shifting. These torque nannies can be disabled with a tune flashed to the ECU, but you increase the chance of breaking something. Also the ECU backs out timing when its hot outside to prevent detonation from happening. My STS-V has much more power when its 60 outside than when its 100 outside.
When you reflash the ECM with a performance tune and something under warranty breaks, GM may pull the ECM and detect a tune or the a previous reflash voiding your warranty.
Bob
When you reflash the ECM with a performance tune and something under warranty breaks, GM may pull the ECM and detect a tune or the a previous reflash voiding your warranty.
Bob
Phoenix
SHOHOLIC
Same with the new Kia Forte. Hammer down = 1 sec delay.
Bob Gervais
Wut?
Yep, the new SHO does that.
Tecchie
SHO Member
So, let me get this straight... the new 2010 SHO is Drive-By-Wire?
What is all "wired" Throttle? Steering? Braking?
I need to know, because depending on what it is, it'll be a deal breaker for me personally.. I don't like a shit ton of wires (my 1995 SHO has enough already)(and my 1990 bronco has the perfect amount bank fired fuel injection means it fires four injectors at a time lol but less wiring mess)
I don't want steering, braking or acceleration by wire.. kinda defeats the purpose of mashing the pedal to the floor for a thunderously-loud take-off!!!!!!
Fly-By-Wire/drive, etc just means more shit to burn up and fail when overloaded (fuses don't matter to me, something will eventually fail) and burn wires... accelerator unlikely, but still...
I like solid physical connections and feel to my ride.. my pedal (gas) for my sho is smooth, the pedal in my bronco is firm and tight...
Wife and I test-drive a 2008 Taurus (when they were new) and I didn't like the GUTLESS 263HP V6.. I couldn't even so much as break the tired loose from a DEAD STOP to FULL THROTTLE!! Just my wife and I and a TINY little dealership dude in the seat next to me.... What a *************...
Sorry, I am very picky when it comes to "control" over my stuff......
What is all "wired" Throttle? Steering? Braking?
I need to know, because depending on what it is, it'll be a deal breaker for me personally.. I don't like a shit ton of wires (my 1995 SHO has enough already)(and my 1990 bronco has the perfect amount bank fired fuel injection means it fires four injectors at a time lol but less wiring mess)
I don't want steering, braking or acceleration by wire.. kinda defeats the purpose of mashing the pedal to the floor for a thunderously-loud take-off!!!!!!
Fly-By-Wire/drive, etc just means more shit to burn up and fail when overloaded (fuses don't matter to me, something will eventually fail) and burn wires... accelerator unlikely, but still...
I like solid physical connections and feel to my ride.. my pedal (gas) for my sho is smooth, the pedal in my bronco is firm and tight...
Wife and I test-drive a 2008 Taurus (when they were new) and I didn't like the GUTLESS 263HP V6.. I couldn't even so much as break the tired loose from a DEAD STOP to FULL THROTTLE!! Just my wife and I and a TINY little dealership dude in the seat next to me.... What a *************...
Sorry, I am very picky when it comes to "control" over my stuff......
venom
Rowboat Design
Sorry, I am very picky when it comes to "control" over my stuff......
Well if drive by wire rules a car out then you are *screwed* at ever buying a new car pretty much from this point forward..
Almost everything is drive by wire for the throttle anymore. It just plain makes sense. No more squeaky, sticky or failing throttle cables, and traction control is total cake as the throttle plate is entirely controlled by the computer - if you overcook it it can pull air and fuel. Drive by wire makes so many things more possible. Like the awesome intake valve setup that the 370Z has. The throttle plate in the new Nissan 3.7 is full open anytime except at idle or if traction control kicks in. Otherwise the stepper motors actuate the phasing control to work like this animation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8P2VwEe0FY&feature=related
What that gives you is almost ZERO intake chamber that is in a large negative pressure unless you are full on the throttle and the intake valve is full opening. Granted the intake tract will never be atmospheric if the motor is sucking for air at all but the throttle body is not the restriction to letting air into the cylinder - only the valve is.
This is one example of something that is only possible with drive by wire.
Tuning can adjust how the car responds as far as the throttle body. Keep in mind that the car knowing that the throttle is opening in advance also allows it to make the necessary adjustments for fuel and spark rather than always trying to "Catch up" like in a more traditional system.
thebigjimsho
LSA = YUM
So, let me get this straight... the new 2010 SHO is Drive-By-Wire?
What is all "wired" Throttle? Steering? Braking?
I need to know, because depending on what it is, it'll be a deal breaker for me personally.. I don't like a shit ton of wires (my 1995 SHO has enough already)(and my 1990 bronco has the perfect amount bank fired fuel injection means it fires four injectors at a time lol but less wiring mess)
I don't want steering, braking or acceleration by wire.. kinda defeats the purpose of mashing the pedal to the floor for a thunderously-loud take-off!!!!!!
Fly-By-Wire/drive, etc just means more shit to burn up and fail when overloaded (fuses don't matter to me, something will eventually fail) and burn wires... accelerator unlikely, but still...
I like solid physical connections and feel to my ride.. my pedal (gas) for my sho is smooth, the pedal in my bronco is firm and tight...
Wife and I test-drive a 2008 Taurus (when they were new) and I didn't like the GUTLESS 263HP V6.. I couldn't even so much as break the tired loose from a DEAD STOP to FULL THROTTLE!! Just my wife and I and a TINY little dealership dude in the seat next to me.... What a *************...
Sorry, I am very picky when it comes to "control" over my stuff......
Yeah, I'd much rather have my throttle cable stretch...although what's the odd of that happening?
thebigjimsho
LSA = YUM
Yeah, the tune in my V got rid of torque management...
SHODWN
Mother Threasa
Dude its a KIA! Ive been DBW since 04 and love it, my duramax and my sho are just about instant. But it too can be adjusted by a simple tune if you feel the need to..
Sorry about the KIA comment but think about it. 1 press throttle, sensor tells the bic lighter to spark, 2. gas and spark mix, 3. gerbal gets a hot ass and your on your way.. Slowly but your on your way.
IM Buddy8
Active Member
SOO true...
I'm no expert but if it has a cable it still has wires going to the throttle (TPS) and the wiring to my TPS failed in my 95 SHO.. My new car is DBW and pedal feels great. It feels real If I never popped the hood and had no knowledge I'd think it was a cable no matter how long I drove it.
SHODWN
Mother Threasa
Sensetivity can be an issue too, my 05 Dmax was to touchy. Start on the accel pedal, hit a bump that would move your foot and the truck would launch you would notice this and let off and this would create the opposite and start the truck jerking. A reflash of the truck solved it, I was trying to get gm to buy me a neck brace!
SHODWN
Mother Threasa
It worked pretty good to, at NED one day I set chris;s car to like 700 and made no difference at all (duh), so my assumptions that maybe it didnt work. He came back in and I went the opposite way to see if it worked (set to iirc 250) and bam it fell on its face and he ran like a 18 something.
ViPER1313
SHO Member
Drive by wire system "lag" times seem to vary greatly car to car. My 07' Rabbit had a 1/4 to 1/2 second lag whenever you hit the gas - I could kick the gas to the floor and let off, the car's engine would never react. My girlfriend's 08 Corolla S and my friend's 07' Yaris also have a noticeable lag, but not as bad as the Rabbit. My Grand Prix and a Dodge Charger 5.7L I test drove have / had 0 lag even though they are both drive by wire. Personally, I would rather have a throttle cable and no traction control, but the government made that option illegal, so....
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