disconnected CID and still starts?

[doclees]

Why does the engine start with the Cam pos sensor disconnected? Thought that would leave it dead.

 

[Rockledge]

Once the PCM figures out when Piston #1 is at TDC, it is able to fire the coils in the proper sequence. So the CID signal is not critical to engine operation.

See: Ford DIS/EDIS "Waste Spark" Ignition Systems

 

[doclees]

So what critical function does it provide? In trying to figure out my random no start issue, I have posted earlier, I started with the CID since I did get a 214 code. Wondered if disconnecting it would give me the same low battery no start everytime. No dice. Started right up.

 

[Rockledge]

If the DIS Module does not receive valid CID input during engine cranking, random coil synchronization will be attempted. Therefore, several start attempts (cycling the ignition switch from OFF to START) may be required to start the engine.

Actually, a bad CID sensor can indeed cause what seems to be a "no start" condition, as described above. When a valid CID signal is absent during cranking, the PCM has to guess which coil to fire. Since there are three coils, there is a 1 in 3 chance the PCM will fire the correct coil at the right time. So you may have a few instances where the engine won't turn over during cranking.

The CID sensor is also used for fuel-injection sequencing, and it also is used by the PCM ito help monitor the rest of the ignition system.

 

[doclees]

Thanks rockledge. Have you ever heard of it giving symptoms of a weak battery? I will put the new one in tonight and try it. Then look at the ignition switch if that doesn't do it. Then the ignition stator. And then......etc

 

[doclees]

So a bad CID can mimic a bad starter or battery. Replaced CID and starts everytime tonight. I will update this after a few days.

 

[doclees]

Crap! Problem returned. Strange, started 5-6 times last night real strong. Give it back to the wife and same no start. Any other ideas folks?

 

[jelloslug]

Do you hear the fuel pump priming when you turn the key to run?

 

[SHOZ123]

If the engine does not actually turn over when trying to start it is in the starting system; starter, starter solenoid, ignition switch, clutch switch (TRS AKA nuetral safety switch on an ATX) cables or battery. It will have nothing to do with a sensor.

If it truns over but does not start this may be an actual sensor problem though the cam sensor is really not needed. It just makes for a faster start.

 

[doclees]

Well update here. This is what it was doing. Hard start as if the battery was weak. Next start maybe no start as if the battery was dead. Groaning/clicking. Fuel pump pumping.
Changed CID. Had 5 or 6 starts strong back to back. Thought it was done. Next morning wife takes car. Starts strong in am. Parked until 3pm. No start as if bat dead. Wait 20 min. and starts. She gets gas and starts. She goes for a beer. No start. Wait 20 min and starts. So I am told.
Last night I start car. Strong start 5 times in a row. I let it get to temp and shut it down. Starts strong again. I drive it for 10 min and stop it. Starts strong.
I take apart battery cables at battery and clean posts and cables. With cables off I turn on ignition and step on brake. Thought I read that clears codes. Replace cables. Starts strong.
Wife has it again. Must have started in am. Will see.

 

[93rev2sev]

Sounds like you have a dying starter, or a loose starter wire, or crap on the connector. I had the same problem on the 95 windstar (starters are interchangable).

One time it would start, the next it wouldnt. When it did start, sometimes it cranked strong, sometimes it cranked slow. When it would not start, it would click once like a bad battery connection or not click at all like a dead battery.

I swapped my spare ATX SHO starter in there 4 or 5 months ago and it has started every time since.

Where the battery cable is atached to the starter, there is a plastic cap on the top of that cylindrical housing. My cap was loose/cracked.

Try a junk yard starter and keep your old one as a spare.

 

[ycode90]

Check your ground cables .

 

[doclees]

Thanks folks. Could be starter. If it is it will be the 3rd in less than 3 years. I plan on cleaning the starter connections next. I will have the codes pulled again tonight. Now the 89 is acting possessed.

Oh did I mention before I changed the CID I had to put 12 oz of water in the battery?

 

[doclees]

Thanks guys another bad starter. Lifetime warranty. So what is burning out my starters so fast?

 

[seraphiem]

I offer no advice on what is killing your starters.

But I've noticed I get about only 1 year of service from an inexpensive rebuild (about $100 - $130 from local parts chain).

Been tempted to hunt and search out better starters as I've replaced 4 thus far on all my SHOs.

 

[PaulRuffo]

One thing about the starter is that it's location in regards to the oil filter is not exactly optimal. Each time you change the oil filter, a bunch of oil runs down over the filter. A long time ago I remember a post about someone fabricating a small shield to hold over the starter as they removed the filter.

 

[Mr95Gl]

One thing about the starter is that it's location in regards to the oil filter is not exactly optimal. Each time you change the oil filter, a bunch of oil runs down over the filter. A long time ago I remember a post about someone fabricating a small shield to hold over the starter as they removed the filter.

Some plastic bags, or a piece of cardboard would do the trick.

 

[SHOZ123]

Keeps it from rusting out if you ask me.....

 

[doclees]

Thanks folks, I do remember oil changes being messy. Just as an update I took the old cam sensor from the 93 and put it on my 89 with all the intermittent bucking problem but no codes. About 3 weeks now and no problem and my cam seal job done last year looks good. No oil at all. Oil in the 93 cam sensor probably caused the CID code.