Ccrm ?

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

Okay so I dont come here often but when I have a problem i know this is the place to go... have been searching for over an hour now and I have found many "possible" solutions to my problem so I figured I would just ask...

symptoms...
Couple weeks back headlight switch stopped working but I could turn them on with the auto on/off... (coincedence?)
Car was running just fine and pulled into parking spot at work..
come out from work... turn key, hear pump, car starts just fine...
Go to back out... and car just shuts off !!??
Turned key off... try to start listen to pump but now pump doesnt shut off ??
Keep trying... no start and then I notice my cooling fan running... I have never heard it run on a cold start prior??!!
Go get some gas... nothing

Based on what I have found here I am leaning towards the IRCM/CCRM...
I checked fuel pressure and with the key in the on position... pump running... it is fantastic... go further to crank and pressure goes away and the pump stops ??? little bit of ether and she tries so i assume there is spark ??

IRCM/CCRM The performs four functions on the SHO:

1) EEC Power Switching
2) Fuel Pump Relay Switching
3) Cooling Fan Power Control
4) A/C Clutch Control

Any help would be greatly appreciated
92 MTX with 144K


Forgot to ask... where can you buy a CCRM ??

Scott

 

[Devin]

Turned key off... try to start listen to pump but now pump doesnt shut off ??

You probably hydrolocked locked it.

I checked fuel pressure and with the key in the on position... pump running... it is fantastic... go further to crank and pressure goes away and the pump stops ??? little bit of ether and she tries so i assume there is spark ??

Ether? When you crank it the engine turns over, the valves open and the injectors spray the fuel into the valves. The pump turns on for a second or two when you turn the key to the On position and stops automatically or when you turn to the Start position (that's why you can sometimes have a hard time starting if you turn the key too fast).

Take a telescoping magnet, take out the spark plug in one of the left hand bank plug wells, wrap and securely tape a piece of shop towel to the end of the magnet and see if the cylinder is filled with liquid gas. Err, petrol

You can try starting the car with the pedal held down all the way to clear out the cylinders but you may have mixed results.

Also, check for spark, don't just assume you have it.

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

Thanks Devin... based on your comment are you saying that once the pump shuts off after the initial 1.5 second prime, it stays off until the car starts ?that it is not supposed to be pumping when cranking ?

The weird parts about this new problem are the fact that with key just in the on position, the pump does not stop like it used to.... and now the colling fan run with the key in the on position ??

I will search but what is the proper method to check spark ?

thanks for the reply

 

[Phoenix]

Just to be sure you are dealing with only one issue , now is a good time to pull the codes.

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/eec/eec.htm

 

[SHOZ123]

Sounds like a PCM problem to me or shorted ground.

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

I hate to sound too stupid... but can you guys provide the location for the items such as the PCM and the ECC... I know where the CCRM/IRCM and the DIS are but ???

Also, how about the correct procedure to check spark ??

The crank sensor is less the 2000 miles old...

Could my proble be the coil ??

 

[rubydist]

The pcm is in the firewall, ahead / above the glove box - the connector is on the firewall, the pcm actually sits in the cabin and comes out via the glove box opening.

The ccrm or pcm sound like likely culprits, based on the symptoms you have described.

The fact that the crank sensor is only 2k miles old means nothing, since it only takes seconds for them to be destroyed if they come loose. However, if it fires when you put ether in it, that suggests you have spark. I check for spark the old fashioned way, pull off a wire, lay it where it can ground to the engine somewhere, and watch what happens when someone cranks the engine over - you should see/hear a healthy spark.

Look on your ccrm for a large letter code ("M" or "J", etc.) because you need to get one with the same code. Look in the classifieds - I and others have some for sale.

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

My CCRM is completely coverd by a degraded rubber pad and I think if I try to scrape that off, i will destroy the sticker...

Are the CCRM's availible from AutoZones's or the like ?? I found what I think is the CCRM at RockAuto but they dont ask about the letter code... I think I need the M

Thanks again for the help !

 

[Phoenix]

rockauto has them but unsure if they have the M ones , plus they are 150+$

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

I bought a CCRM from a fellow member, plugged it in and no luck... I had to try something fast as I was leaving town.

I am still out of town and have a friend of mine looking at it while I am away... he is not familiar with the SHO at all and he does not have acess to a computer.


Was just wondering if anyone could re-read my symptoms again and maybe offer a likely problem.

*** The biggest thing I noticed was that with "my" CCRM the fuel pump primed, but never turned off.... until the key was turned to the crank position
*** with the new/used CCRM the fuel pump does not prime but I can jump it with the ECC and it pumps

The way the car just shut down right after starting was/is really strange

thanks in advance...I am 300 miles from the car and just trying to do anything I can here and relay that to the guy tinkering with it... I have spark and I have fuel... not sure of the actual pressure

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

After some more reading I have found a few threads that have stated

nor should the cooling fans come on just from turning in the key with the engine cold. The cooling fans are controlled via that 'little black box' the CCRM, which it sounds like you need to replace.

this is what i noticed most after that car quit... I have not heard my fan come on at the key prior to this.... and it still comes on with the new/used CCRM ???

Any one ? DIS ? Cam sensor and Crank sensor along with timning belt were done 3-5K back ??

 

[SHOZ123]

If the controlling wires going to the CCRM from the PCM are grounded then the fans and fuel pump will come on when they shouldn't.

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

thank you for the reply... what do you mean by grounded ??

 

[SHOZ123]

A pinched wire. The CCRM relays are turned on by the PCM closing a circuit and grounding the relay coil.

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

not sure how that would happen immediatly upon starting the car but I will have him check... why would the two different CCRM's have different affects on the fuel pump ?

 

[SHOZ123]

Were the CCRMs the same?

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

not sure how that would happen immediatly upon starting the car but I will have him check... why would the two different CCRM's have different affects on the fuel pump ?

Same as in letter code... yes, they are both an M

 

[SHOZ123]

Could be a faulty CCRM or just circumstantial and not the CCRM at all.

 

[SHO me the $$$$$$]

Is there a way to test the CCRM or should I get another one ? if so, should order a new one and hope the code is okay or try another used one from someone here?

I think the symptoms sound like CCRM but I am no where as knowledgeable as you guys here

 

[rubydist]

I would next check fuel pressure at the rail. What is it with the key turned to 'run' and what is it when cranking? (This will tell you if the fuel pump is running/working properly or not.)