Belt issues... wrong water pump?

[38SHO]

ok so I keep blowing off belts on my PS/WP belt

well whats causing that... we started looking at it(some other mechanics) and come up with a cause to the complaint of belts blowing off.........

the water pump appears to be offset to the crank pulley, what I mean is the water pump pulley seems to be sucked closer in to the engine then the crank pulley... it looks like the belt is angled from the crank to the water pump...

you can visually see they don't line up right either just from looking at the pullies....

another assumption that leads me to believe that the water pump is wierd...

does anyone know that the tensioner for the ALT/AC belt has a bolt hole in it around the water pump area... I noticed its missing that bolt... and you look through the hole in the tensioner and theres no threaded hole for a bolt to go on the other side of the tensioner.... so does the waterpump for a 3.0 have a spot for that bolt to go on through and when the ******* who did the water pump realized theres no bolt hole just didn't put that bolt in there and thought everything was kosher and didn't realize there was a problem?

ALWAYS compare parts... your used old one and the new one your putting on!!!!!!!!!!

be as redundant as possible

so is it possible someone put a 3.2 water pump on my 3.0? or even a waterpump for a different engine?

I'm really going to shit a brick if I gotta change the water pump, but it needs a front 60k done anyhow.... sometimes hard start... Crank sensor fault.. no tach movement when it messes up... also notice wire for what I presume is the crank sensor looks like it touched the belt and wore a lil bit around the waterpump/crank area.....

also leaks pretty good from cam seal and crank seal.......

 

[chrism3784]

yes a good 60K front service will do you nicely. I'm currently doing mine now after stalling for 6 months. I got it all out and needed cam seals. I put the seals in and the back cover. Started getting dark, so will have to hopefully finish tomorrow, or friday so I can take that car to the meet. I hope the seals was the problem with the oil leak. I really want it fixed.

As far as the belts, that is odd they are not aligned. I have no idea on the 3.2 waterpump. When you spin the waterpump, does it wobble?

 

[38SHO]

no the water pump is fine.....

nice and solid spins easily, no play

lil play in the PS pump pulley......

but stand at the front of the car, look down at the water pump and crank pulley on that front side, and the belt is crooked and comes in a good 1/4 inch or more up to the water pump.....

another thing I find odd... I took this from the SHOPP sight..... I said I had a missing ac/alt tensioner bolt.... and behind it was nothing... no hole for a bolt... and the other two bolts were on the tensioner so it had to be lined up properly....

now I look at this pic, on the right side of water pump, there is a bolt circled.... now above that bolt looks like a big ******** for a bolt in about the area for the tensioner.... man that really makes it look like I have some bogus ass water pump....

 

[itwonder]

Maybe these pictures will help:

 

[K-Dawg]

I'll see if I have a 3.2 water pump around and take a picture of it for you tomorrow.

Sure that the harmonic damper isn't coming off the crank or separating from itself?

If I knew that you were having problems earlier I could have stopped by to take a look at it for you. I drove right by your house tonight.

 

[SHOtime2511]

.

Sure that the harmonic damper isn't coming off the crank or separating from itself?

X2!
if that harmonic damper is the slightest bit off its going to throw belts.
get on that bitch with a TQ wrench and make sure its tight,like 200 ft-lbs.

 

[K-Dawg]

TQ wrench? How about a breaker bar?

Also be sure that the outter part isn't separating from the inner part.

 

[SHOtime2511]

i don't think thats the problem here.

 

[38SHO]

I think its more the water pump... I could check out the crank but the water pump is just too suspecting.... that guy posted some nice clear pics of his water pump and tensioner.... that big ass bolt that goes through the tensioner and into the water pump is gone on mine... and u look through the hole in the tensioner and theres nothing behind it for a bolt.....

thats really bad news if its not the same and the reman one doesn't have provisions for that bolt.......... that really points to it being wrong....

 

[38SHO]

heres my next question

can I get to the water pump without taking off everything else and doing an entire front 60k... it looks like I can get to the bolts... now wether or not theres clearance for it to slide out of there with everything else still in place is another story... it also appears I'm missing my lower area? timing cover........ so that would even give me some more room

maybe I just need to take some good pics..... then maybe we can tell if its really a 3.2 water pump... someone might have both laying around and could compare them after seeing mine....

 

[itwonder]

You really can't do it right without taking everything off. The only shortcut would be to try and just change out the center piece and leave the WP housing in place. If you try that, leave a bolt or two on but loosened so the housing does not shift position while you pry the center piece off. Then hold the housing while you slide a new center piece on. What usually happens if one tries this is a leak starts at the little o-ring between the housing and the block, but it may work if you are very careful. Definitely pressure test before putting it all back together.

 

[38SHO]

well you never take out the real housing anyhow.... the part you change bolts to a housing already on the engine......

it LOOKS like you could get the water pump out if you take off the upper timing cover and tensioners/belts............... but is there room for it to slide out around the timing belt? thats the question............. I'm going to give it a shot this weekend maybe

damn now I need every single F'n accessory lol... good news it I know how to rebuild the PS pump and it only needs like a 12 dollar bearing.... ALT/WP/Compressor are all F'd tho

 

[itwonder]

well you never take out the real housing anyhow.... the part you change bolts to a housing already on the engine......

it LOOKS like you could get the water pump out if you take off the upper timing cover and tensioners/belts............... but is there room for it to slide out around the timing belt? thats the question.....

The piece of information you are missing is that the only bolts that hold the housing to the block are the bolts that go through the center piece. When you take those bolts out, the housing will be free to move, and if it does the tiny little o-ring that is sandwiched between the housing and the block often does not seal when it is tightened back down. Hence the warning about using the short cut method and the suggestion to pressure test. Most of us remove the whole housing so the o-rings can be replaced, but that does require full disassembly.

If you proceed to just do the center piece, you should remove the middle timing cover or risk breaking it. The timing belt won't be in the way, but the CPS wire will have to be pushed over.

 

[AREA 91]

FYI: I kept blowing the belts off my sho every time I hit 3500RPM. Turned out the CRANK BOLT WAS NOT TIGHT!!! Triple check this!!!

 

[38SHO]

I know the guy before me changed the timing belt..

HE REALLY HALF ASSED IT

looks like he cut out a slot for the belt in the lower timing covers.. and even some piece of the cover are gone!

I'll check the crank bolt tomorrow..........


thx for the info about the housing moving around.... good to know that before hand


I really need to do a full frontal 60k.... fix some leaks and put a new Crank sensor on it, I'm just worried about taking too long or not being able to get something off........

i bet I could get the water pump out in 30 minutes.... where as I'm probably looking at a few hours just to tear everything else down...(sprockets/pulley/belt/backside timing cover) I've never done a job like that before.... but thats what I said about my rod bearings and I did those in like an hour.... after the first two it was easy as pie

time to start getting some parts and gaskets here

 

[K-Dawg]

Here's a couple pics I ran across:
MTX:

ATX:

You can see that there is the extra holder for the CPS wire on the ATX pump.

 

[38SHO]

also notice the gasket is the same? making it appear as if u could bolt a 3.2 water pump onto the 3.0 engine/water pump housing...........

I've been studying the shit out of some pics from rock auto..... one thing I noticed was the ATX pump is DEFINETLY shorter... what I mean is the snout isn't so long

I also noticed in those two pics the area where the pulley bolts to looks different between the two pumps, I'm thinking about taking that pulley back off and looking to see exactly what it looks like for identification purposes.......

 

[38SHO]

also about the CPS wire holder on the 3.2 pump, it defintely is different, I dunno if mine looks like that... but the 3.2 timing belt is different with a different tensioner in different spots correct? this could try to route that wire harness differently...

possibly why I saw a rub mark on the CPS harness from it touching.......

 

[K-Dawg]

Maybe. An ATX pulley will be for a 6-rib belt, while the MTX pulley is for a 4-rib.

 

[SHOtime2511]

Todd,why dont you snap us a few pictures of your WP and pully system.