Base Tune!

[TimboSHO]

So I went to the dyno tonight (Mustang MV250 HD) to get some base numbers before I put the 3.2 with stage 1 cams in next week. I was quite surprised!



Since it's a little hard to read, that's 264whp and 228wtq. Stock 3.0 w/ California emissions.

Now, he just had this dyno installed last August, and says he's been having problems with the 'lower horsepower' cars reading high. We tried re-calibrating a couple of times, but still had the same results.

One thought, I thought that 4th gear was 1 to 1, but after checking my Car and Driver, it looks like it's 1.02 to 1. Would that change it that much? Even if I divide what I got by 1.02, it's still to high. Any ideas?

As long as nothing changes on the dyno, I will still be able to see gains I get after the mods, but it would still be nice to get the correct numbers.

 

[Ishodu]

What are the details on the car you dynoed. It is for surely messed up bad unless you have cams now it should have even peaked at 6200 ish it did not. I would for sure go somewhere else and get it done who knows how wacky that is.

 

[SHOspazz92]

Time to find a new Dyno.

-Sam

 

[TimboSHO]

Car has bone stock driveline. I'm tearing the car apart tomorrow, so I don't have time (or money) to dyno it somewhere else before, but afterwords I'll have it dyno'ed at the same place, and then possibly somewhere else. Then I can adjust and figure out what I was making before.....

This kind of sucks, because the guy is an awesome engine re-builder and I've dealt with him for years to do block and head work for me, but I'm kind of bummed that these numbers aren't right. I guess after I do the next run, I could suggest getting it fixed and giving me a free run afterwords? Or just using my car to try and set it up right? I don't know..... grrrr

 

[SHOspazz92]

FWIW, Your car should be making 170-180 FWHP on a Mustang Dyno (As they read 12-14% lower then a Dynojet).

-Sam

 

[yamahaSHO]

As far as using this as a comparison, that graph is garbage. If there was a problem or mis-calibration, I'd hope he would have it fixed before you made it back. The AFR (Lambda) is all over the place as well, was he having issues with that too?

At this point, we've got a pretty good idea of what it would make on just about any dyno. Just do your work and go back to ensure you've got it tuned well.

 

[steve142857]

Maybe he charges his customers upon power their car deliver on his dyno! I hope you won't have to pay for that! Go somewhere else and make sure you at least get a rain check to go back when he knows what he is doing! Good luck with that and with the coming mod too!

 

[TimboSHO]

FWIW, Your car should be making 170-180 FWHP on a Mustang Dyno (As they read 12-14% lower then a Dynojet).

-Sam

I told him right up front that I was expecting about 180.

As far as using this as a comparison, that graph is garbage. If there was a problem or mis-calibration, I'd hope he would have it fixed before you made it back. The AFR (Lambda) is all over the place as well, was he having issues with that too?

At this point, we've got a pretty good idea of what it would make on just about any dyno. Just do your work and go back to ensure you've got it tuned well.

I just looks like the AFR reader was either super sensitive, or it had a low refresh rate, causing it to jump up and down.

Maybe he charges his customers upon power their car deliver on his dyno! I hope you won't have to pay for that! Go somewhere else and make sure you at least get a rain check to go back when he knows what he is doing! Good luck with that and with the coming mod too!

No, he just charges a flat rate.

He's doing a dyno challenge in August where you'll get your base tune in his dyno, and then you'll do another pull on a portable dyno at the Metro Cruise. I think I'll do that and compare. The only other option I have around here is ZZP Performance that mainly does GM front wheel drive cars...... which would probably be a good option, considering that's as close as it gets to weight and performance in a FWD car.....

 

[yamahaSHO]

I just looks like the AFR reader was either super sensitive, or it had a low refresh rate, causing it to jump up and down.

What it looks like is that you went stoich(and above) under WOT. A low refresh rate would show LESS resolution. Either way, in OL, your car should be able to be smooth. If your car is truly jumping around like that, you've got some things to address.

 

[TimboSHO]

What it looks like is that you went stoich(and above) under WOT. A low refresh rate would show LESS resolution. Either way, in OL, your car should be able to be smooth. If your car is truly jumping around like that, you've got some things to address.

He had a few others hanging on the wall, and they were all very jumpy like that as well, so I would assume it's his equipment.... hopefully....

I have a tweecer r/t that I've been trying to figure out (haven't hooked up to the car yet). I would like to get rid of the egr and put an 80mm maf in, and hopefully i can make some other adjustments as needed. If anything it looks like I was a bit lean down low as well. I don't have a wide band o2, so it's going to be hard to figure out how rich/lean I am without making a trip to the dyno. I'd still like to go back to this one afterword, but I'm definitely going to go somewhere else afterwords.....

 

[yamahaSHO]

Being NA, you can use your NBO2 through datalogging to get a good idea how rich/lean the car is.

 

[whiteguy3]

I wouldn't go back to that dyno. Ever.

 

[TimboSHO]

Being NA, you can use your NBO2 through datalogging to get a good idea how rich/lean the car is.

I'm not sure what NBO2 is. I don't see that setting to select in the payloads. I'm not sure how AFR is calculated, but it only calculates it when I have certain things selected. As I stated in the 'what did you do to your sho today' thread, I have a reading of 3..... like all the time. I used Josh's x2j file from SHOnut. It wouldn't run on the Tweecer x2j file, and most of the numbers looked way off.

Now, my other question, is timing supposed to be +10 all the time, and is it OK if it goes to +70 when goosed? Also, the car has EGR, but I have 0 entered as the EGR value. Will this hurt anything? The car will not have EGR when I put the 3.2 in....

 

[yamahaSHO]

NBO2 = Narrow Band O2 sensor (your stock sensors).

As far as timing, you'll have to learn at reading your map. Make sure you have all your settings configures (banks/strategy/etc).

 

[TimboSHO]

NBO2 = Narrow Band O2 sensor (your stock sensors).

As far as timing, you'll have to learn at reading your map. Make sure you have all your settings configures (banks/strategy/etc).

After more playing/searching, I found the AFR only read when I had EGR selected as a parameter. I found out that most people use this signal for their wideband o2 sensors. Since I have EGR still hooked up, it was probably giving me a weird reading from the EGR sensor.

So, I can tell you right now, I'm terrible at reading o2 sensors to figure out AFR. I guess it's back to more searching......

Is it ok to discuss all of this in this thread, or should I be making a new thread in the tuning section? Thanks!

 

[TimboSHO]

Update, went back yesterday and got 272 whp and 242 wtq. Mods in the sig. I thought I would have more gains (at least that's what my butt dyno tells me). I put the SHO in storage today, so next summer I'll try another place and get some real numbers......

 

[jayro]

What kind of tune are you running. To get the most out of the cams you need to adjust some things. The gain amount looks okay, but the actual numbers are not. Some more timing (if its running the stock timing) can help with the cams.

 

[TimboSHO]

I think the only things I changed with the Tweecer were the bore size and idle speed. How much more timing do I need with stage 1 cams?

 

[jayro]

I think the only things I changed with the Tweecer were the bore size and idle speed. How much more timing do I need with stage 1 cams?

Im not sure if there is a specific #. I am sure that someone with more experience than me could give you some advice on where to start. When I asked about timing for my Triflows I was told that with Premium gas 5 degrees is pretty safe. I am not extremely knowledgable when it comes to the tuning stuff, and I don't want to tell you something incorrect that could hurt your engine.