'94 Bad starting.

[keith455]

I'm working on my brother's '94 automatic trans car and it's really hard to start sometimes. After sitting awhile, if i turn the key forward it'll only have about 20#'s of fuel pressure. I tried doing the key on/off thing to build fuel pressure and it'd build up to 40ish #'s. I have to play with the throttle to get it started.
Floor it, pump it whatever it takes but after trying a few times it will start and it sounds fine and revs without a problem.
The weird thing is that it'll crank crank crank and then stop and the lights almost turn completely off. Seems that it's drawing all the juice from the battery.

I searched this site and found people with similar issues and i don't know if this is the same.

Thing's i've done/checked so far:
changed the crank position sensor
checked the crank sprocket keyway and it's fine.

Questions:
What should the timing be set to while running?
How do I check the ignition components to see if they're ok? I have the ford repair manual but I guess there's a diagnostics/electrical manual that I need.
What's the best manual to get for these cars? The haynes Taurus one doesn't have much about the SHO.

Thanks.. hopefully we can get this car back up and running and not have to part it out.

 

[frosho]

Could be the cam position sensor (CID). Could be a lot of other things too though... have you tried pulling the codes yet?

 

[Huntervf]

A crank sensor won't cause a hard start condition; when that sensor goes bad it just plain won't start at all. A Cam sensor can cause a long-start condition, but what you're describing sounds more like a fuel issue, or possibly spark plugs. If there was an issue with the timing you'd have symptoms while the car was running so I don't think that's your problem.

First of all, have you tried pulling engine codes? If not, here's an excellent link to guide you through the process. You don't need any special tools, just a paper clip and something to write with

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/eec/eec.htm

Once you pull codes, post them up here and we'll take a closer look. In the meantime, things like a weak fuel pump, plugged fuel filter, bad MAF, bad spark plugs and/or wires are the first places I'd be looking.

 

[keith455]

I haven't pulled the codes yet and I didn't want to ask that question because I'm sure i could find the "how to" by searching this site, but you've saved me the trouble. thanks

What really concerns me is when it stops cranking for a second and draws all the power from the batt.
I'll get the codes and post them up.. thanks

 

[93rev2sev]

Sounds like this:

Starter on the way out. Thats the dim lights. It binds internally when it heats up and draws all kinds of current. If when you change the starter, it's all oil covered, change the oil cooler to block gasket.

Cam sensor. If you don't feel like pulling codes, it wont hurt to change it. When you get it out, if it's all oil covered, change the cam seal, too.

All procedures can be found on this site by searching, faster than I can type them out.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

I have an OEM remanufactured starter that's 3 months old and it will do the same - momentarily hang-up if I try cranking it too long. If I were speculating, my guess would be that this is a thermal trip to protect the solenoid and not necessarily a bad starter.

Pull the codes first, as others have suggested. Starting issues can involve a number of potential problems and you could end-up throwing-away a lot of money replacing good parts, like the crank sensor. Once you have the codes, run a fuel pressure check again. Prior to that, the only thing I would be incline to change would be the fuel filter, and then only if it has never been changed.

When you check the fuel pressure, make sure you also check pressure with the fuel pressure regulator vacuum feed removed, and under a load. This will validate the operation of the fuel pressure regulator.

Codes first - fuel pressure check - and then post back.

 

[Huntervf]

Good call guys on the possible binding starter. I had an F-250 diesel that I thought had starting problems with similar symptoms. Long crank times and unless I cycled the glow plugs twice it would really have trouble getting fired. After checking both batteries, the charging system and glow plugs it finally got to the point where it would barely crank over. Decided to yank the starter (which on that freakin' beast was the size of a Honda motor), had it bench tested and it was locked. I guess when you have dual 1000 amp batteries pushing something it'll go, but hooked to a single battery on a bench it was frozen. New battery and voilla, all starting problems disappeared

 

[spazmoid]

i know its a long shot but make sure all your cable connections at the battery are clean and not corroded. Mine seem to corrode bad enough every 5 months that starting begins to get slower and harder until it just doesn't get enough current to even turn over, and the dash lights dim.

 

[keith455]

Problem resolved. I found this post http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=76347&highlight=test+cid
and it has a video link and the car was doing the same thing. We replaced the cam sensor and started right up. tested it about 10 times and it's as good as new.
Kind of makes me upset that we spent all the time checking the keyway and crank sensor, when all it took was $30 and 5mins to replace the cam sensor.