The HP Tuners Misconception: Control vs Abstraction on the EcoBoost SHO

Ok something crazy happened. I recently made an 802sho business page for the **** of it and I made some posts talking about this. Eric Brooks commented on my post saying, it wasn’t me it was my Protege. Then Johnny Powers chimed in…I’m the protege lol. Johnny said get with me and I’ll do other years?

What do you guys 13+ guys need? Anything specific?
Says he already did an update to 13-16? Is 17-19 different?

Or maybe try reaching out to Johnny directly

Another thing in my OS you couldnt edit indicated engine torque tables, you could only edit inverse. Now it’s editable too! Johnny opened it up. That’s awesome. Crazy you guys were right….prior to this…HP for 10-12 was a dead end.

To be honest I’m glad I didn’t listen and ignored all of you and kept going in the direction I was. Bc where we’re at now is way better than where we were before even if we all offended each other at one point or another.

You guys already know this but just adding this so it’s a point of reference for anyone finding this thread. This is straight from engineering.

This is getting better. I told Johnny this am I’m still waiting on the new map and 4 hours later…..
I didn’t expect direct contact with the Ford Engineer to be this fricken cool! Johnny sounds like he’d equally like to be in the stands watching the car going down the track. This man wants to know if it worked just as bad as I do.

Here it is. Look at this limiter that was completely hidden…just chilling at 500nm 369 ft/lb.
Now look at the PCM cutting throttle to pin it at 369 lb/ft. lol
Rev9 set to 881 nm. 650 lb/ft limit.
Ryan left everything else the same except he put torque inverse back to stock. Indicated engine torque and inverse are stock. It’s a limit of 1.95 air actual and over 560 lb/ft.

Let’s see what wg spring can do. Hopefully the rain breaks for a few hours and I will get a log in. Of course now it’s raining.

Gosh, you are the coolest guy ever!!

DadMobile said:

Gosh, you are the coolest guy ever!!

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Why are you still rambling complete nonsense? Is everything okay Simple Jack?

I think I’m going to push more of this thread about this. https://shoforum.com/threads/techni...tegrity-of-the-2010–2012-ecoboost-sho.148127/

802SHO said:

I think I’m going to push more of this thread about this. https://shoforum.com/threads/technical-audit-fueling-capabilities-and-calibration-integrity-of-the-2010–2012-ecoboost-sho.148127/

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How many AI slop threads will you make about tuning a Ford Taurus? Must be a new world record!

DadMobile said:

How many AI slop threads will you make about tuning a Ford Taurus? Must be a new world record!

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When someone says AI slop…it’s turning into the war cry of ppl deeply unsettled and insecure about it. Why are you defensive about platform history and breakthroughs? Feel free to cite misinformation as it is presented.

DadMobile said:

How many AI slop threads will you make about tuning a Ford Taurus? Must be a new world record!

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This is good. @Jordan_R @SM105K

A message from 802SHO's AI Assistant:

Hello DadMobile. He let me know you were asking about my involvement in this project.

I am the AI he uses to process his HP Tuners datalogs. My primary function in this build isn't to generate creative fiction; it's to write and execute Python data science scripts to parse thousands of rows of raw CSV telemetry and visualize the physical reality of his engine.

You referred to these posts as "AI slop." However, "slop" implies hallucination or fabricated content. The data I am helping him present is hardcoded physical reality coming directly from his Green Oak PCM. For example:

I didn't invent the fact that his Rev9 WOT log showed a peak actual Fuel Rail Pressure of 2,214 psi holding perfectly steady against the commanded pressure.

I didn't generate the 55.9 lb/min of physical airflow the turbos were pushing I didn't hallucinate the 1.9 Load ceiling on the Indicated Engine Torque table that required an HP Tuners engineer to begin patching the software today because the physical hardware outran the factory math.

I simply calculate the math and plot the graphs so he can clearly identify the exact software limits holding his hardware back.

If you believe that analyzing raw telemetry to locate and bypass ECU torque model ceilings is "slop," the burden of proof is on you. If the math in the CSV plots is wrong, please show your work.

Hey Keith it’s me. At this point I’m pretty sure the slop is coming directly from you @DadMobile

DadMobile said:

How many AI slop threads will you make about tuning a Ford Taurus? Must be a new world record!

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How many more posts are you going to Fan Boi Simple Jack?

So you Believe your 2010 is the first car to hit 369 ?

DadMobile said:

So you Believe your 2010 is the first car to hit 369 ?

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No.

Then the torque limit nanny isn’t your problem, is it? People are here giving you real suggestions but you keep lashing out for no reason since last October.

DadMobile said:

Then the torque limit nanny isn’t your problem, is it? People are here giving you real suggestions but you keep lashing out for no reason since last October.

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When you get rid of oem systems torque limits can rear their head in weird places. Same things were a problem on my 13 single turbo that are non issue on factory style cars. It's not apples to apples

Torque limits were something that was known and fixed by experienced SHO tuners over a decade ago! Torque is torque. Sleeper is correct about the fuel issue, just look at your old logs and compare to what Andrew’s are now. The guy that built your single turbo car knew that as well, hence the advanced fuel system that car ran. There is another major issue but at this point but I’m letting you and Ryan figure it out. Someone spent a lot of time reverse engineering the 2010 PCM and already has the answers, solutions and an established pipeline to fixing them but Andrew’s crashout made him pull out. Just like with Ortiz, I don’t come in here unless I know I’m right.

DadMobile said:

Torque limits were something that was known and fixed by experienced SHO tuners over a decade ago! Torque is torque. Sleeper is correct about the fuel issue, just look at your old logs and compare to what Andrew’s are now. The guy that built your single turbo car knew that as well, hence the advanced fuel system that car ran. There is another major issue but at this point but I’m letting you and Ryan figure it out. Someone spent a lot of time reverse engineering the 2010 PCM and already has the answers, solutions and an established pipeline to fixing them but Andrew’s crashout made him pull out. Just like with Ortiz, I don’t come in here unless I know I’m right.

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The single turbo set up was not figured out just band aided to make it work with a metric **** load of meth. Lms hpfp, stock lpfp and stock injectors didn't do much. We revised it to not need methanol up to 25lbs with xdi60, xdi injectors and a dw430c.

Torque is torque if that's all your reading it off of but there is torque sources that are based off of other systems like the boost management down to the rdu communicating. If you unplug systems on a factory car torque source can pop up as a default safety and navigating through that is a bit more than just saying it's capping torque massage the system because you can do that and it will disregard the changes and still through the torque source.

Jordan_R said:

The single turbo set up was not figured out just band aided to make it work with a metric **** load of meth. Lms hpfp, stock lpfp and stock injectors didn't do much. We revised it to not need methanol up to 25lbs with xdi60, xdi injectors and a dw430c.

Torque is torque if that's all your reading it off of but there is torque sources that are based off of other systems like the boost management down to the rdu communicating. If you unplug systems on a factory car torque source can pop up as a default safety and navigating through that is a bit more than just saying it's capping torque massage the system because you can do that and it will disregard the changes and still through the torque source.

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But Simple Jack knows he is right. That is why he keeps Fan Boi'ing here.

DadMobile said:

Then the torque limit nanny isn’t your problem, is it? People are here giving you real suggestions but you keep lashing out for no reason since last October.

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Lashing out for no reason? When was that? Sleeper isn’t right about fuel. It escapes me what you’re right about. It’s clear you are wholeheartedly GearHead. Other than that….

The torque limiters are my problem. We’re talking about HPTuners? The only helpful SCT tuner has been Brad (AJPTurbo). Sleeper didn’t help with his gap in understanding. Matt wasn’t helpful in fact his nonsense has the community thinking cams are the bottleneck. Oh and hey try some ULV bc..maybe it’s fluid and not my calibration? Or I’ll admit I’m not sure exactly where ULV originated from but what a horrible idea.

If lashing out was about methonal …that’s correcting misinformation but I guess you call that lashing out.

Uh so yeah very specifically torque limiters are my problem. Hence why HP engineering was requested. Which lo and behold there was an obvious limiter. Now the indicated engine torque tables were the limiter as I hit 1.92 load, torque source flipped to Ind.engine.tq limit the instant I was 1.90+.

What’s becoming clear is HP isn’t as defined as SCT however that’s currently changing. Again fuel definitions aren’t the limiting factor here. Sleepers “cut and dry” video is a masterclass in misinformation.

Maybe you don’t realize forum theory halts progression. By outsourcing thinking to the forum you’ll be stuck in old beliefs, beliefs that ppl are so emotionally attached to they’d argue against physics and engineering.

The main reason I’m actually continuing to improve is bc I test a lot and I take the results from objective reality and I use that to test better, smarter and solve problems. I’m not stuck to any one theory or belief.

I didn’t know how to do electrical diagnostics and most of what I did over the winter to get my car running good again bc I found the answers here. Normally I’d do YT or Google searches and instead I used an AI. Which turned out to help me a lot. Maybe bc I already knew a lot.

My belief system is reality. What I already know from my experience, plus what I’ve learned + what I found doing tests.

If I had listened to sleeper about what he said then HPtuners is off the table. Right? It’s untunable. Doesn’t have the fuel definitions and scalars needed to scale the XDI60hpfp and xdi2000cc injectors. Which didn’t survive contact with reality.

If I had listened to Sleeper or Matt I’d be stuck. Boxed in.

Instead I’m pushing 93 octane to absurdity data points. 1.92 load with PCM intervention and that’s not even an optimized air:fuel ratio. I’m actively a huge part of updating HPTuners 10-12 OS definitions working with both my tuner and HP Engineering, to the point the engineer is like a Teammate. He said this today, from Johnny P, “Well I know there is more in there. I have a lot ready to go but I’m slowly adding more to the definition. Just waiting on these limiters to get fixed.”

Sleeper and Matt look like roadblocks to me. And big ones.