93 ATX 3.2 (Suggestions and help) ** Long**

[TREpaNaTion]

I have a Black 93 ATX 3.2 SHO.

Intro to the car
I recently bought this car (for $200) about 7 months ago and have been working on bringing it back to life after a Oil Pump failure. (results a blown motor) I got the car home and was looking around at it more in depth checking everything else out. Its in mint condition other then the fact that a rod blew out the side of the oil pan.

My father and I have over the time of purchasing the car. Taken out the old motor and stripped all the good parts off of it. Taking multiple picture of the connectors and placement of everything during removal.

We did some major searching around for a new motor through multiple junkyards and such. I came across one with 87k at a local junkyard for 350 dollars. They were asking 450 but we talked them down because of a few missing parts. (thankfully we have the parts to replace them) We have ripped the Intake off of the motor and disassembled it. Took the Old Valve covers from the other motor after closely checking them and had them powder coated for $130 in Black and Red (Valve Covers and Intake).
We Pulled the exhaust Manifolds because the gaskets were shot on them and cleaned them out. Pulled the water Pump and put the one from the other motor to put in after Painting it (black) cause it was only 150 miles old. Pulled the Pulleys (not the timing ones) to paint them up as well.

I Got all new gaskets (intake, exhaust, water pump, etc..)

Now here is where my questions lay.

How do I go about polishing up the Intake and the cross overs or clean them up with out damaging them myself?

** Note ** I've never done this before.

I have also been told then when placing the Valve Covers back on with the new gaskets that they have to be tightened in a specific sequence to certain torques. What, if any is that specific information that I need to do so? Does anyone have a guide that would possibly explain this for me?

Is there certain Spark Plugs when I put new one's in that work best for this car? ( I am planning on new plug wires as well as it only seems right since the motor is out of th car and I wont have to deal with tight confined spaces as to when the motor is in the car.)

Is there any other things that I should get new before putting this all back together? ( I have the motor covered with a tarp in the garage to prevent any dust or dirt from getting inside the openings and such as well)

Do I have to replace the rubber seals where the crossovers mount up to the butterlies, or can I use the old ones?

I just want to make sure that I cover everything before I put it back in to assure that everything is assembled the correct way so that I don't get it in the car and everything hooked back up and have to tear it all back apart.

Sorry for such a long winded post and all the questions. I tried doing a search for most but Dial up is limiting me for time and I do apologize for this. I hope to possibly have the car going in the next 2 months if I can so that I can start some work on my other SHO that needs some simple but time consuming things done. Thank you in advanced for even just reading this and for the help if you have anything for me.

 

[hawkeye18]

for plugs, use AGSP32FM if you're going Motorcraft (which is recommended), or APP3924 for AC Delco plugs. the hi-po 3924 plugs are good as well.

As for polishing the intake, it's no big deal, you probably won't hurt anything with a bench grinder and a lot of time. It will take FOREVER if you want to polish to a mirror gloss.

Make sure you check the valve shim clearance while the valve covers are off. It's easy once you're there, and it's part of the necessary 60K maintenance. Also, a new timing belt and inspection of the pulley are mandatory. Valve covers are not a big deal for torqueing, just make sure you don't over-torque and snap bolts off. Go to http://www.alfitz.com and get the SHO Engine book (I uploaded it just for you! ) for torque values and a bunch of other useful info.

New valve cover seals and spark plug tube well seals are mandatory. The intake gaskets can all be reused; if the paint is flaking off, spray-paint it with black rattle-can. They don't get hot, and they only have to seal atmospheric pressure; no biggie. The rubber intake seals get old and crack over time, but if yours look ok then they're probably fine.

let's see... honestly, you'll want to replace every seal that you can... front carrier gasket, main seal, rear main seal, etc. etc... they're a lot harder when the motor's in the car.

Any other questions, just ask! Good luck... make sure you get Accel wires or better... those Exact Fit wires are crap.

 

[TREpaNaTion]

Thank you very much.

Is it really hard to change out the seals? I mean I can tear anything out but I don't want to wreck anything.

Also what is a front carrier gasket? Sorry im terrible with terminology but this is a great learning experience for me.

As well Im gonna have to go to my brothers to download that thing you uploaded. Its all greatly appreciated. Thank you again.

Be back tonight after work .

 

[hawkeye18]

haha... hey no prob! Tearing out seals isn't too bad (don't scratch anything) but installing them can kinda suck. Just make sure you have a large assortment of PVC pipe diameters and you should be ok.

Gotta eat supper, will post more later.

 

[TREpaNaTion]

Okay, a few more questions I pondered about measuring the Shims... However. I dont know what that means either. I feel kinda stupid bout asking what all of this is. But I would like to know.

As for PVC. we have plenty of it out in the garage. It seems to become a universal tool for some things.

Installing the front seal sort of like installing a seal that the drive axle goes into then so to speak?

Well as of right now everything that I wanted painted up for the time being is done. I am going to pick up the new seals that I need. Front and rear and get them both replaced so that I dont have to do it while its in the car. It only makes sense to do so this way.

sorry im super tired. Hope i can type up more when i wake up and can remember everything i was going to post here.

thanks again and sorry for the delays in question asking.

 

['94SHO]

Some people...

Some people, (me included). Simply turn the shims over.. This is not perfect,
But a lot better than you have now... I have a P.S. leak, which is turning out to be cam seals, timing belt, valve cover gaskets, BOTH P.S. lines, a used
pump... etc., etc..... In other words, better to do it all at once, while you are in there.. So, while I am in there, I am going to flip the shims, this will save me some dough, and help my poor SHO at the same time.. YES, I know
it should be done right, But I am only trying to get through the winter, THEN
I will do a proper 60K.. But after 176,000 miles, flipping the shims can only help, until I can do it right.

 

[johndallara]

SHO engine stuff

sounds like you have done a very thorough job on this engine so far. Certainly, replacing all of the seals (cam x2, crankshaft) from the front of the engine is easiest while you are changing out the timing belt.

a great resource is:

http://www.shophoenixproject.com

the intake assembly is easy, and I have always put new gaskets all around -- replacement hose for the butterflies-to-runners are a little hard to find, but also well worth it. I have also replaced the upper-to-lower intake gasket at the same time (all are in the felpro kit).

the valve cover gaskets are a little tricky, esp. the rear. Also doing the valve lash adjustment at this time is good, with the engine already dis-assembled. You really only need the tappet compressor and holder to do this. best thing is to borrow a collection of shims for replacement as you go. the rear exhaust shims are hard to get to when the engine is in the car --definitely better to do this when the engine is out --, rest are not so bad. there is a shim worksheet here on the forum that you can download (sticky).

two things to remember when you re-assemble the upper intake. first, leave the crossover tube off when you tighten the runner-to-lower intake bolts (torque only about 10 ft-lbs). this helps the intake seat better on the (new) gasket). when it is seated, then put the crossover tube on and tighten it up.

also don't forget to reconnect the ground -- hooks up to the left rear of the intake -> firewall. engine will crank but no spark unless this ground is in place.

also, be careful with the valve cover bolts. they strip easily, and only need gentle torquing. very hard to remove if stripped.

an 89 shop manual is a great resource on this motor. I am sure someone on the forum has one for sale, etc.

These are all the mistakes I have made in my short career working on SHO engines. the final product is well worth it. be sure to post some photos when you are done.

best regards,

JD

 

[TREpaNaTion]

I would personally like to thank you all for helping me in this. I have ordered the new seals that I will need.

I have the Intake Seals. The Valve Cover seals, Cam Seals, Waiting on the front and rear seals. I don't know what a Carrier Seal is so if someone could explain this to me it would be greatly appreciated. I have two Shop Manuals on this Car. One is Chilton and the others is a Haynes and I believe that the Chilton Manual is much better then the other. But both are good if the other doesn't have some information in it the other is more likely to have it.

I shall be taking pictures of all of this very soon and posting them up in this thread for you all to see. I have about 300 pictures of the disassembling of the motor. For use of where things were hooked up to the harness. Where certain bolts went. And how everything came apart. It took my father and I about 19 hours total of work to get the Motor out as neither of us had ever taken one out this car before. Thats with a few beers tied into it and a lot of bull ***** talking.

I shall post pictures of the pieces strew about though in the garage as they currently lay. As well as were putting it all back together how it's all going. This will be a work in progress type update so may take a bit as I don't feel like rushing this and screwing something up. Thats honestly the last thing that I would want to do.

Tomorrow on Thanksgiving. I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving (well today). I am going to check the Shims and make sure that they are in good working order. The 89 SHO guide as well was posted up for download for me as well from hawkeye18 and I have to get to my brothers yet to download it and burn it to a disc. This will be of a great help to me with all of this as well.

I think that the trickiest thing for me is going to be hooking up all of the harness connections again. I screwed up with disassembly and didnt tape and number the connector pieces so Its going to take a bit more time and I realized this after we had pulled the whole motor out of the car. If I do end up stripping out the valve cover bolts I have a full spare set that I can use to my liking from the old motor thankfully. But very good advice as to making sure that I don't wrench them down more then they need.

Will it matter if I Put the intake all back together before hand? Just curious cause I was thinking about reassembling it before put it in the car. The crossovers and everything else. But if the way you say works the best I shall do it that way. I just want to make sure that everything is write as I said before. I don't want to have to back step at all if I can help it. I was told as well the best way to get the intake polished up would be to take a dremel tool and do it that way but to make sure that I don't reef on it and take more then just the build up out of the inner walls. I don't want to have a carbon block right after because I really don't feel like spending extra money if I don't have to to fix something that could have been taken care of just a month before so to speak.

Sorry I feel Ive ranted a bit. Now for yet another question. What is the best way to go about cleaning out the butterflies. Is it okay to paint up the housing or would you suggest not painting that up? I heard that there is a upgrade to these as well. And would it be worth the money to get the upgrade or would it be better to just clean them up and leave them stock? I don't exactly know the full function of them other then the fact that they open and close at a certain rpm. I am guessing that they control the Airflow through the chambers of the cross overs as to how much goes in and out. But what would the difference be with the upgraded ones? As well how much is it about to get better ones and such?

I am as well going to take the alternator in as its old and close to being worn out from what the previous owner said and going to have that one rebuilt at the local shop for around 65 to 70 dollars. While they do that though I am going to ask if I can take the housing for it so that I can paint that up as well. (yes I have a need to make everything look good for my own good).

I think that will do for the time being. Once again. Happy Thanksgiving to you all. With that, Thank you all that have helped me out so very much with this major task that I have at hand. Its greatly appreciated.

- Trent

 

[Phoenix]

Some people, (me included). Simply turn the shims over.. This is not perfect,
But a lot better than you have now... I have a P.S. leak, which is turning out to be cam seals, timing belt, valve cover gaskets, BOTH P.S. lines, a used
pump... etc., etc..... In other words, better to do it all at once, while you are in there.. So, while I am in there, I am going to flip the shims, this will save me some dough, and help my poor SHO at the same time.. YES, I know
it should be done right, But I am only trying to get through the winter, THEN
I will do a proper 60K.. But after 176,000 miles, flipping the shims can only help, until I can do it right.

Shims don't wear. Cams do. So it's completely worthless to do so. Do it right or dont waste your time doing this.

 

[hawkeye18]

what? I thought the whole point of shims was that they were hardered to one specific hardness LESS than the cams, so that the shims would wear before the cams, which are much more expensive and difficult to replace?

 

[Phoenix]

what? I thought the whole point of shims was that they were hardered to one specific hardness LESS than the cams, so that the shims would wear before the cams, which are much more expensive and difficult to replace?

Just to adjust your valves , just like Ex. Hondas who has a screw with a nut and you need to adjust each 60k or 100k.

I tried to drill a shim once. Heh good luck. The titanium bit didnt even scratch it. Shims are made with Jesus metal called Ubtanium (or something).

If they were softer , youd need to throw them EACH time you make a 60k due to wear ..... or re-measure each one of them.... Nope.

Also note that theres a side for the shim , number must face down in the bucket.

 

[SASHO91]

While I agree that flipping the shims does nothing to bring back the valve lash, it doesn't matter if you do flip them though(using another shim, to bring the lash back into spec, that has a bit of wear on it).

 

[Phoenix]

While I agree that flipping the shims does nothing to bring back the valve lash, it doesn't matter if you do flip them though(using another shim, to bring the lash back into spec, that has a bit of wear on it).

yes I dont think they are 'softer' on one side or another.

 

[TREpaNaTion]

Current Update as to where im at with this project.

Ok so its been established then from the sounds of it if the shims are worn and not up to spec that I should replace them all with new ones.

I have here a few pictures of whats been done so far. These pictures are a few days old and Ive done a bit of work since then. So somethings That I have described are further in process then whats going to be shown in the pictures.

I have reduced the quality of them so that I didn't have to sit here for 6 years waiting upon my dial up for them to upload. as well as load everytime that I come to this thread.

Valve Covers after Powder Coat

Timing Covers and water pump after being painted.

Front of engine with the time covers off and a few other things

Intake Parts, Valve Covers, and a few accessories.

This is a Picture of both of my shows - taken from sky view kinda lol

Picture of the Car that this motor is going to be placed in. Its a bit dusty from sitting for a while.

 

[SHOMON]

Did you get the black car in MA.?

 

[SASHO91]

No, the shims do not wear, the cams do. This is why you replace the shims with other (larger) shims.

 

[TREpaNaTion]

Nope, I picked up the Black one in Stillwater Minnesota from a friend of mine. He originally picked up the car because he loved my green one, and wanted one for himself and then got ****** off because he had just paid a company to fix the front crank seal and then the oil pump went out on him and blew up the motor.

 

[Danz13]

Dont forget to fix up that tranny while youre there, the 93s were so weak...