New 2014 pp!!!!!!! What tune?

[Donzi28zx]

Hey everyone Im new to site, been reading some posts about tunes. Has anyone used a Hennessy 445 max boots package? That is the one i have been looking at. Saw LMS and Torrie tunes, if i dont go with the Hennessy kit what way should i go???? Thanks for your time John

 

[Donzi28zx]

Anyone?????

 

[Dave]

I run Livernois. I love it!

 

[TSS1]

Ditto on Livernois - never had any issue, never looked back. Like DJE, I am running the K&N Typhoon as well in my MKS.

 

[bpd1151]

Definitely do NOT go with Hennessey..... way, way, WAY to many previously documented problems.

As far as the other two go.... both are competent in their offerings.

I will say that the fastest Taurus SHO on record (and also the only Ecoboost) thus far.... is running a tune file from Livernois Motorsports.

No other tuner currently has an Ecoboost in the 11's besides Livernois.



I suppose you should keep in mind your long term goals for your SHO.... at least as it relates to how fast ultimately you will want to go.

Ultimately, if you start knocking on the upper ranges of either tuners product offerings, you will have to consider an alternate, supplemental auxiliary fuel supply.

Unleashed Tuning, and their customers, tend to gravitate towards the E85 route.

Livernois, and their customers, tend to prefer 100% Methanol.

Either are viable alternatives, and really comes down to a matter of preference.

Good luck in your decision making, and enjoy the **** out of that there SHO!

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

I strongly disagree... Check the EBPF and all the people recently who have had serious issues with their Livernois tunes in their 2013 & 2014 SHO's. Not only are Livernois programmers and tunes more expensive than any SCT tuner tunes, but they can't be data logged if a problem occurs, or if you want to add a 3 bar sensor or a W/M system.

Now if you live near Detroit and want to spend the money for a Dyno Tune at Livernois facility, and are willing to continue that option every time you add mods to your SHO... by all means go ahead.

Otherwise consider Torrie @ Unleashed Tuning, who is very responsive to customers... Two hours vs Livernois 2 Days or longer. He probably has a tune special going with the various SCT programmers that are available. I have been working with him for almost 4 years with great results.

The fastest SHO with the Livernois tune has like $30,000. - $40,000. in mods. It is a 2011, and the tuning available to it is much different and easier than for the 2013 and 2014.

Our car EB engines run out of fuel very quickly. No real solutions other than Methanol injection at this time. No one makes bigger injectors, or a bigger DI pump, and the stock in-tank fuel pump and line are also limitations. Best news is that our ECM's are very effective in shutting down the engine if a lean condition occurs. Best solution is to always tune with limitations in mind.

Good Luck!

 

[13brute]

Coming from diesel pickups, my Torrie tuned SHO is an absolutely different car with the 93 octane tune. It may have been "quick" before, but it is almost scary fast for a big sedan now. I got a great response from Torrie as well. He answered at least a thousand different questions that I had..lol. I'd talk to both tuners via email and phone, and see what each can offer. I can say this: your car will see a night and day difference in acceleration with the SCT tunes from Torrie.

 

[RonPorter]

No dog in this fight, but, to your credit, a few of you are into seriously boosting the power.

For myself, when I had the Legacy GT Turbo, I was good with Stage 1 93, and would have gone to Stage 2, which just would have been down & mid-pipes to get into the 12s from my 13.3x, but that was it. Never did it, since I sold the car to Tom Ochal.

Frankly, if I had a Gen 4, I feel that I would be like most folks. Get a tune, stay with 93, no meth/E85/NO2 or any of that stuff. With these cars. something that would get me to the 12s would be fine for a DD. Just as I would have done with the LGT.

I would suspect that Torrie or LMS will fit that bill just fine, but since LMS is sorta "down the street" from me.......

 

[TSS1]

It is true that I have heard of some initial issues with the LMS 2013/2014 vehicles. I have always had quick responses from LMS myself, but know others claim differently. In any event, I echo just getting a 93 tune from Torrie or LMS and not messing with E85/Meth etc for a DD. Honestly, my car is almost scary fast for a barge sometimes. I don't need or want anything faster than a sub 0-60 4.5 second everyday large car. I don't track though. Even as is, it takes finesse to be light enough on the throttle in snow/ice.

 

[Donzi28zx]

Thanks Guys

EcoBrick Rob thanks for your input every good info.... I guess Torrie is it for me then. Tune (93) and cold air intake, maybe exhaust... What is Torrie's web site????? Not sure if my wife can handle to much new power at one time.....lol She has been in a 2003 Marauder since Oct. of 2002, kooks headers, x pipe full 2.5in flo masters, Lido tune, under drive pulleys and 4.30 gears(not 3.55) 145,*** miles and still getting down the road.:thankyou:

 

[SHOdded]

http://unleashedtuning.com/

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

A week or so, I contacted Torrie about posts that claimed you needed to data log and work with Torrie to get the most out of his tunes. As I had stated in response to those posts, it isn't necessary, but is always an option.

Torrie's first reply in summary was his typical... "I'm not surprised about anything that is said in forums... and why I don't post on forums". Then out of the blue he sent me another e-mail in which he was laughing... As he summarized... "It's really kinda funny to be criticized for offering free services and being very customer friendly"...

This is why I chose Torrie to tune my extensively modded G8, even though he doesn't routinely tune them, and there are others who do this daily. I knew Torrie would be responsive if there were issues and if I needed tweaking, and he always has.

Livernois is a great company, but as mentioned many places, it is a BIG operation, that works on all MFG platforms. Larger volume customer models, including the EB 150, Camaros, and new Vette, get the most time, simply because that's where the money is. Back in 08' & 09' at times they had as many as 8 or 9 G8's in house for mods. Canned tunes for them are an avenue to more mods and ultimately in house installations. Good business plan! And if you are close by.. great place to deal with directly in person.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

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[Livernois Motorsports]

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[Livernois Motorsports]

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[Livernois Motorsports]

This definitely is not accurate information. Having a handful of customers experience some problems with Cold Weather WOT performance is not what I would call a serious issue. It caused a hesitation, but no issues that were beyond some annoyances. We also have a 2013 SHO, 2013 Explorer sport, and 2013 Ecoboost F150 that we have at our disposal every single day specifically for in house development. I wouldn't consider a small number of cars out of quite literally thousands tuned a wide spread issue.

Why make someone else data log, with incorrect PID's, to try to solve a problem when we can let our customer's sit back while we do the investigation in house while they sit on their couch? I know as a customer the last thing I would want to do is be told to go data log a problem with my car over and over until the data needed shows up. Why risk my car and license doing this?

We were the first to offer 2013 SHO tunes, first to offer 2013 Explorer sport, first to offer custom tuning for the F150 Ecoboost, first for the 2.0 EcoBoost Escape, 2.0 Ecoboost Fusion, first in the 12's with an explorer, first in the 11's with any ecoboost, and countless other Firsts and only's in the Ecoboost world.

Our customer's achievement with his 11 second SHO is something we are pleased with, but we have countless other low 12 second Ecoboost cars out there, and to state there is 30-40k in mods is just is quite distant from the truth. The performance of this car car be achieved for less than what is in it, but what is in it is not near the mark you are claiming. I don't think even if you count the appearance mods it doesn't have that much in it, but I hope you aren't counting appearance mods as anything towards the performance of it.

The EcoBoost platform is actually our number one area, and we tune hundreds of EcoBoost vehicles per month. As for mods like 3-bars, turbos, methanol, we have done them all here, in person, and have the tunes already figured out for them. Again, the advantage of doing everything in house and THEN releasing it in a mail order environment, you can't account for everything, but you can account for 99% and the 1% you can't is usually something minor.

This is what separates us from so many others in the overall industry. We develop and learn on our own property rather than making our customers the guinea pigs. This is why we have enhanced more EcoBoost vehicles than any other company on the planet.

We also take deep pride in how we function as a company, always requesting honest feedback and never asking anything else of our customers than honest opinions and feedback on what we do and we always support or customers unconditionally, putting our best effort forward on everything we sign up to do, all while never down talking anyone, nor expecting that cantor from our customers towards others.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

THIS IS WHAT First SHO (Mike) posted on EBPF on 12-2-13

If he paid $40,000. for his SHO back in 2011, He claims at least $35,000. in mods. MOST of these mods including: Tires, Wheels, Suspension mods, plus all the engine mods all are performance related.

I am a bit surprised and dumbfounded with the comments by [email protected]. NOT VERY PROFESSIONAL.... To say that they can solve everything without seeing any data from the customer's ECM is not logical. They admit that it is only happening to a few people and seems cold weather related. So... what is wrong with being able to have the customer data log and send in the results. I'll tell you why... Their Hypertech related tuner is not able to data log...

Also, they seem to have personalized this, and are calling me a liar. Unbelieveable! Frankly, if this had happened to a customer of Torrie, he would have looked at a data log of the problem and worked on a solution until he had one. Some of these unsatisfied Livernois customers have waited over 2 months for relief. And, I can prove that based on their posts on EBPF and here.

I rest my case!

Rob Moser - EcoBrick Bob

Sell the 11 second SHO?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2013, 10:17:01 AM »



Guy's, I am thinking of selling the first 11 second SHO and wanted some feedback first. Here is a list of everything on it.

FASTEST 2011 Ford Taurus SHO with PP on record @ 11.95 115.41 mph
76,954 miles and runs flawless!
Silver/Black Completely LOADED
Ford Lockpick
Forgestar F14"s 20x9.5 with Nitto Invo's + 4 Drag wheels and tires, 2 are Forgestar’s with Nitto NT555R (rear) and 2 Konig Milligram 18” wheels with Mickey Thompson ET Street Drag Radials (Front) with wheel spacers to make front drag wheels fit
Wilwood Front Big Brake Kit from TCE with 3,000 on new rotors & pads
Traction bar setup
Airaid CAI
Corsa Cat back
Livernois Down Pipes
Livernois Tune's with Mycal
Megan Coilovers Front and Rear
Torrie - 170 F Thermo & Radiator
L&M Airflow Throttle Body "Only one made and I have it"
Alkycontrol Meth Injection with 4-gallon tank mounted in trunk
Upgraded Tial Turbo's
2013 Trans and Oil Cooler
Front Lower LED's on always
Catchcan between rear PVC and intake, Breather filter on front
New Grill upper and lower + stock grill included
Tinted rear taillights
De-badged
2013 SHO front fender emblems

Performance mods done professionally by Livernois Motorsports

Interior in perfect condition, no worn spots and everything is in perfect working condition.

Heated garage kept and not driven in the winter

Have all records of purchases and maintenance.

Over $75,000 invested + many extra stuff I will send with it.

My question is what would be a fair price?

Mike

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Definitely do NOT go with Hennessey..... way, way, WAY to many previously documented problems.

As far as the other two go.... both are competent in their offerings.

Unleashed Tuning, and their customers, tend to gravitate towards the E85 route.

'
This is incorrect. Torrie absolutely does NOT condone the use of E 85 due to the large increase in fuel needed as well as the inconsistency of the Ethanol percentage ( not always 85%). Torrie was likely the first one who was experimenting with W/M systems and tunes with the EB platform. I installed his W/M system in late 2010.

The only person who was using 100% E 85 was Mike B. (4DRHTRD) in his 2011 Flex. With his bigger turbos and other mods, he actually turned a 12.1 in the 1/4 mi when the DA was over 4,000. Had he been able to race where the DA was like it was at Milan when First SHO turned his 11.9+, 4DRHTRD would have easily beaten his time. Others have added small amounts to increase octane, but I know of no one else who has exceeded 30% Ethanol.

No W/M system supplier that I know of (including AEM, Devils Own, Roe Racing & Snow), except for AlkyControl - the system Livernois sells - recommends a Methanol percentage above 50%. Any Methanol % over 50% is flammable. The reason for using 100% methanol in spite of the danger, is to provide more fuel to the engine, as well as to cool the intake charge.

 

[bpd1151]

Oh my goodness......

I think someone needs to switch to Decaf, ASAP.

Haha

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

THIS IS WHAT First SHO (Mike) posted on EBPF on 12-2-13

If he paid $40,000. for his SHO back in 2011, He claims at least $35,000. in mods. MOST of these mods including: Tires, Wheels, Suspension mods, plus all the engine mods all are performance related.

I am a bit surprised and dumbfounded with the comments by [email protected]. NOT VERY PROFESSIONAL.... To say that they can solve everything without seeing any data from the customer's ECM is not logical. They admit that it is only happening to a few people and seems cold weather related. So... what is wrong with being able to have the customer data log and send in the results. I'll tell you why... Their Hypertech related tuner is not able to data log...

Also, they seem to have personalized this, and are calling me a liar. Unbelieveable! Frankly, if this had happened to a customer of Torrie, he would have looked at a data log of the problem and worked on a solution until he had one. Some of these unsatisfied Livernois customers have waited over 2 months for relief. And, I can prove that based on their posts on EBPF and here.

I rest my case!

Rob Moser - EcoBrick Bob

Sell the 11 second SHO?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2013, 10:17:01 AM »



Guy's, I am thinking of selling the first 11 second SHO and wanted some feedback first. Here is a list of everything on it.

FASTEST 2011 Ford Taurus SHO with PP on record @ 11.95 115.41 mph
76,954 miles and runs flawless!
Silver/Black Completely LOADED
Ford Lockpick
Forgestar F14"s 20x9.5 with Nitto Invo's + 4 Drag wheels and tires, 2 are Forgestar’s with Nitto NT555R (rear) and 2 Konig Milligram 18” wheels with Mickey Thompson ET Street Drag Radials (Front) with wheel spacers to make front drag wheels fit
Wilwood Front Big Brake Kit from TCE with 3,000 on new rotors & pads
Traction bar setup
Airaid CAI
Corsa Cat back
Livernois Down Pipes
Livernois Tune's with Mycal
Megan Coilovers Front and Rear
Torrie - 170 F Thermo & Radiator
L&M Airflow Throttle Body "Only one made and I have it"
Alkycontrol Meth Injection with 4-gallon tank mounted in trunk
Upgraded Tial Turbo's
2013 Trans and Oil Cooler
Front Lower LED's on always
Catchcan between rear PVC and intake, Breather filter on front
New Grill upper and lower + stock grill included
Tinted rear taillights
De-badged
2013 SHO front fender emblems

Performance mods done professionally by Livernois Motorsports

Interior in perfect condition, no worn spots and everything is in perfect working condition.

Heated garage kept and not driven in the winter

Have all records of purchases and maintenance.

Over $75,000 invested + many extra stuff I will send with it.

My question is what would be a fair price?

Mike

As I mentioned before, there are numerous non-performance mods being lumped into that price. It also is a complete guess on his part. The pieces that make his car actually perform are no where near the number you are spitting out. While it's a nice way to make it seem like it's an unobtainable feat without spending this money, it's a misrepresentation of the facts.

I am not sure what drives "certain" users of other tuners to openly bash us. We have done nothing than provide the best tuning, parts, and customer service in the market. Are we perfect? No. Never have we said that we were. What we have said is we have the proper tools at our disposal to handle all issues without requiring our customers to go out there and risk safety, or their investment by data logging. This is foreign to many people because they have not been fortunate to have the tools and capabilities we have, or willing to put the resources into to actually owning the vehicle they support. Many of the formats being used are flat out wrong on the data they spit out. Take for example, A/F, no where does the computer spit out A/F data. Yet the data logger you're using is providing your tuner with this inaccurate A/F data. This is why we data log our own vehicles in house, to ensure it's the correct format and information required. What good does inaccurate data do anyone? That is how people end up with engine failures. Making tune adjustments from this incorrect data. When there is an option that allows remote, accurate, seamless data logging available, we wouldn't reject this, and is something we are working on developing, but again, it's not needed at all due to our procedures we have in place today.

We always make certain customers have done their due diligence on ensuring there are not outside forces causing problems. Spark plug gap issues are rampant on EcoBoost vehicles. So if we recommend a customer to address this before we start making changes and it takes them a few weeks to do it and then another couple to write back with an update, that's not really fair to say we took months to fix it. In reality it took a day or two of working on it once we got confirmation that all of the normal fixes had not completely taken care of the issues. We do our best to get everything updated as quickly as possible, but when you are doing as many tunes as we do in a day, you can't get everyone out their tune in an hour. I think we do a pretty good job at it and our customers seem happy. If not, please let us know as we appreciate feedback, both positive, and negative.

'
This is incorrect. Torrie absolutely does NOT condone the use of E 85 due to the large increase in fuel needed as well as the inconsistency of the Ethanol percentage ( not always 85%). Torrie was likely the first one who was experimenting with W/M systems and tunes with the EB platform. I installed his W/M system in late 2010.

The only person who was using 100% E 85 was Mike B. (4DRHTRD) in his 2011 Flex. With his bigger turbos and other mods, he actually turned a 12.1 in the 1/4 mi when the DA was over 4,000. Had he been able to race where the DA was like it was at Milan when First SHO turned his 11.9+, 4DRHTRD would have easily beaten his time. Others have added small amounts to increase octane, but I know of no one else who has exceeded 30% Ethanol.

No W/M system supplier that I know of (including AEM, Devils Own, Roe Racing & Snow), except for AlkyControl - the system Livernois sells - recommends a Methanol percentage above 50%. Any Methanol % over 50% is flammable. The reason for using 100% methanol in spite of the danger, is to provide more fuel to the engine, as well as to cool the intake charge.

You are going to compare a car with a 150hp shot of nitrous compared to a boost only pass? What do you think our 11.95 would have been with a 150hp increase? It would have ran bottom 11's or better.

As for the 100% methanol recommendation and requirement for us it's because it provides the best performance and safety for the engine. Alky's own website talks about other companies products being inferior due to not being able to handle anything above 50/50 water:meth, but there's is rated for pure meth without the need of **** to protect the pump. This is the reason why many other's do not condone pure meth as it will seize up the pump as it isn't as high of quality. We have cars that have been running pure meth for over a decade and still on the original pump, yet we have had water/meth kits fail the pumps repeatedly.