New 2014 pp!!!!!!! What tune?

[EcoBrick Bob]

As I mentioned before, there are numerous non-performance mods being lumped into that price. It also is a complete guess on his part. The pieces that make his car actually perform are no where near the number you are spitting out. While it's a nice way to make it seem like it's an unobtainable feat without spending this money, it's a misrepresentation of the facts.

I am not sure what drives "certain" users of other tuners to openly bash us. We have done nothing than provide the best tuning, parts, and customer service in the market. Are we perfect? No. Never have we said that we were. What we have said is we have the proper tools at our disposal to handle all issues without requiring our customers to go out there and risk safety, or their investment by data logging. This is foreign to many people because they have not been fortunate to have the tools and capabilities we have, or willing to put the resources into to actually owning the vehicle they support. Many of the formats being used are flat out wrong on the data they spit out. Take for example, A/F, no where does the computer spit out A/F data. Yet the data logger you're using is providing your tuner with this inaccurate A/F data. This is why we data log our own vehicles in house, to ensure it's the correct format and information required. What good does inaccurate data do anyone? That is how people end up with engine failures. Making tune adjustments from this incorrect data. When there is an option that allows remote, accurate, seamless data logging available, we wouldn't reject this, and is something we are working on developing, but again, it's not needed at all due to our procedures we have in place today.

We always make certain customers have done their due diligence on ensuring there are not outside forces causing problems. Spark plug gap issues are rampant on EcoBoost vehicles. So if we recommend a customer to address this before we start making changes and it takes them a few weeks to do it and then another couple to write back with an update, that's not really fair to say we took months to fix it. In reality it took a day or two of working on it once we got confirmation that all of the normal fixes had not completely taken care of the issues. We do our best to get everything updated as quickly as possible, but when you are doing as many tunes as we do in a day, you can't get everyone out their tune in an hour. I think we do a pretty good job at it and our customers seem happy. If not, please let us know as we appreciate feedback, both positive, and negative.



You are going to compare a car with a 150hp shot of nitrous compared to a boost only pass? What do you think our 11.95 would have been with a 150hp increase? It would have ran bottom 11's or better.

As for the 100% methanol recommendation and requirement for us it's because it provides the best performance and safety for the engine. Alky's own website talks about other companies products being inferior due to not being able to handle anything above 50/50 water:meth, but there's is rated for pure meth without the need of **** to protect the pump. This is the reason why many other's do not condone pure meth as it will seize up the pump as it isn't as high of quality. We have cars that have been running pure meth for over a decade and still on the original pump, yet we have had water/meth kits fail the pumps repeatedly.

#1. I have never "bashed" you. Go read all of my posts on all of the EB sites over the past 4 years. I have always been positive towards Livernois. I only posted what I did on this site because of all of the recent Livernois issues that have been reported. I strongly resent you claiming something you know nothing about regarding me.

#2. I was only warning a newby who had a 2013-2014 SHO about reported issues, which the poster(s) considered serious, as well as their frustrations with the time it was taking for things to be resolved.

#3. Nowhere did I mention anything about a 150 shot of Nitrous. That must be in your dreams. Please don't mis-quote me.

#4. As for A/F, I am able to datalog A/F (Lambda) on both banks of my EB Flex using SCT datalogging software. I also have a MSD Dashhawk that shows A/F instantly in front of me on my dash. So you are plain wrong that one can't correctly datalog A/F. That and FRP are the 2 most important things I look at, among about 16-18 logging parameters.

On my G8, I have an Innovate wide band and not only have a gauge, but also have an analog input into my SCT tuner.

#5. ALL of the W/M pumps are made by Shurflow. They are from what I have been told, all identical, and ALL are 100% Methanol Compatible.

#6. Why don't you identify yourself. Rick ALWAYS posted as "Rick @ Livernois", not some ghost from "Sales @ Livernois".

#7. You have posted on this site exactly 3 total times. All of them have stated that Livernois is almost always right, and know more than your customers who, if they make any complaints are likely wrong. I would agree that Dan Millen knows more than almost all forum posters, but you "sir" certainly do not.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

#1. I have never "bashed" you. Go read all of my posts on all of the EB sites over the past 4 years. I have always been positive towards Livernois. I only posted what I did on this site because of all of the recent Livernois issues that have been reported. I strongly resent you claiming something you know nothing about regarding me.

#2. I was only warning a newby who had a 2013-2014 SHO about reported issues, which the poster(s) considered serious, as well as their frustrations with the time it was taking for things to be resolved.

#3. Nowhere did I mention anything about a 150 shot of Nitrous. That must be in your dreams. Please don't mis-quote me.

#4. As for A/F, I am able to datalog A/F (Lambda) on both banks of my EB Flex using SCT datalogging software. I also have a MSD Dashhawk that shows A/F instantly in front of me on my dash. So you are plain wrong that one can't correctly datalog A/F. That and FRP are the 2 most important things I look at, among about 16-18 logging parameters.

On my G8, I have an Innovate wide band and not only have a gauge, but also have an analog input into my SCT tuner.

#5. ALL of the W/M pumps are made by Shurflow. They are from what I have been told, all identical, and ALL are 100% Methanol Compatible.

#6. Why don't you identify yourself. Rick ALWAYS posted as "Rick @ Livernois", not some ghost from "Sales @ Livernois".

#7. You have posted on this site exactly 3 total times. All of them have stated that Livernois is almost always right, and know more than your customers who, if they make any complaints are likely wrong. I would agree that Dan Millen knows more than almost all forum posters, but you "sir" certainly do not.

Bob, it seems like there is some sort of problem between you, our company, and customer accomplishments. What can we do to rectify this situation?

We can go on and on about the correct way to tune and data log; whose Methanol kit to use; or percent of Methanol. Our views, which we believe to be the best, are based on numerous years of experience, and are not the same as yours, you're entitled to your opinion, as you should be. Let's just agree to disagree on these matters.

Again, if you have a somewhat negative opinion of our company and our accomplishments, what can we do to show you the time and effort we put into tuning and developing upgrades for cars is effective, even though different than you are used to?

 

[SHOdded]

Enuf said. I think it is time for this discussion to go offline/in some other format. This is really NOT adding value to the OP's question. In addition, I would request a moderator to move these "offtopic" posts to another thread altogether. Thanks in advance.

 

[EcoPowerParts]

Let's clear some things up:
1. Torrie did not like it when I went full E85 as I went out of fuel, he discourged me from it not because of the fuel quality but because of our fuel system being inadequate. I would not take no for an answer and worked with several people, one to make the dual in tank fuel pump setup, one to modify my intake manifold for injectors and fuel rails and another to provide an aux fuel injector controller. I now know I can provide plenty of fuel without the aux injectors/controller for up to 600HP on gas.
2. I ran a 12.3 on big turbos with a fuel system that I designed, developed and had created for my vehicle on E85 on big turbos with no nitrous. Livernois please DO NOT spread misinformation concerning my personal accomplishments.
3. I made 600HP on a stock block with ATP upgraded turbos on my fuel system on straight E85. Nobody has come close to what I've done and I'm just a guy, I don't have millions of dollars in personnel, equipment building space etc. I did it all by myself, bit by bit working with various manufacturers to FORCE the development of products for our platform. I am very proud of this acomplishement. My hard work can trickle down directly to my customers. Livernois can't touch the fact that at a high DA track with a 5100lb car I ran a 12.3, if I was at the same track as Steve I would have easily ran an 11.7 or better, had I been smart enough to buy a SHO I would have been down into the LOW 11's with my same setup. Anybody can do the math and figure out my extra weight and high DA track easily beats their times. I've had this same debate for YEARS with people when I held the record for stock block Impala SS with a power adder. Bring your car to Phoenix and watch the ET you will run, it will not be pretty and you'll see how fast I actually am.

If I had the resources available to me that Livernois has I would easily have been at over 800HP on our platform and would have had a transmission kit built to handle the power but alas I can't spend $20K on forcing a tranny kit to be built. I'd also have an intercooler kit available, cold air intake and more. I am still developing products and will continue to do so, I am on the verge of breaking HUGE news for the trucks and can't wait to get it done. Another first for just a guy in his garage working with other professionals.

Torrie a great guy, took me back in the fold when I did him a great injustice and has the honor of tuning the highest HP ecoboost powered vehicle on the planet.

BTW, I've never sprayed more than a 75 shot on my car and I've never used methanol. I never tried the nitrous on the ATP turbos, I wish I would have out of the hole but we were fighting tuning still on over boosting and later the transmission not shifting. I would have LOVED to get an 11 out of that brick in AZ, would have been a HUGE accomplishment. Instead I'll just have to run some 10's in my CTS-V

 

[First-SHO]

Clearing things up, yes I have spent $30-40,000 on mods and NOT all was for performance. Turbos, Meth, Exhaust, Intake and LMS program got me into the 11's. I have had ZERO issues with LMS programs or service. They are top notch! I know EcoBrick Bob is a huge Torrie fan and that's fine with me. Both Darrell and I had issues with Torrie's radiator at first and he did take care of it for us, but I felt he looked at me if it was our fault it did not fit.

I went with LMS tuning for several reasons, close, dyno availability and their trusted reputation. Dan and the crew have done a great job for me and put my car into the 11's first. Oh, and LMS programming has never broke an engine.

Also, I do not bash other programmers or vendors if they have some startup issues. As you know all cars are different and sometimes issues occur. I look to see if the vendor fixes the issues and responds quickly.

With that said, I will continue to use LMS for any of my programming or service needs and highly recommend them to anyone needing their services.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

BTW, I've never sprayed more than a 75 shot on my car and I've never used methanol. I never tried the nitrous on the ATP turbos, I wish I would have out of the hole but we were fighting tuning still on over boosting and later the transmission not shifting.

I hope you can understand the confusion on this. All of your runs that you have made videos for state a 150hp nitrous kit in the opening title, even the runs with the upgraded turbos. The upgraded turbo video also does show a pass with a 75 shot. Maybe I missed something as I'll be the first to admit that I couldn't find a video of it going faster than 12.38 where you were spraying a 75 shot on upgraded turbos, so from our stand point look at it this way. if it went 12.38 on a 75 shot, and 12.1 with a kit capable of 150hp it seems spot on the money for this number. If you'd like, shoot a PM over with the link as we definitely never set out to spread misinformation on anything, even if it's not a customer of ours.

 

[EcoPowerParts]

I hope you can understand the confusion on this. All of your runs that you have made videos for state a 150hp nitrous kit in the opening title, even the runs with the upgraded turbos. The upgraded turbo video also does show a pass with a 75 shot. Maybe I missed something as I'll be the first to admit that I couldn't find a video of it going faster than 12.38 where you were spraying a 75 shot on upgraded turbos, so from our stand point look at it this way. if it went 12.38 on a 75 shot, and 12.1 with a kit capable of 150hp it seems spot on the money for this number. If you'd like, shoot a PM over with the link as we definitely never set out to spread misinformation on anything, even if it's not a customer of ours.

You have to read those books I write in the video description.
:sun:

 

[black99lightnin]

What did I miss?

Op, I'm running LMS tunes in both my EB vehicles. I've never had an issue with my 2011 SHO and it's been tuned for 2+ years. The Explorer has been tuned for about a month, and has also performed flawlessly. I wanted to give Torrie a shot on the Explorer, but as of this writing SCT still doesn't support the EB Explorer Sports??????? Both tuners respond quickly to emails/questions from my experience. Torrie emailed me several times back/forth regarding the Explorer. I don't think you will go wrong with either.

Regarding the cold weather issues with the 13/14 vehicles. IMHO, it must be either something with the Mycal or the new ECMs. Lund also had similar issues to LMS regarding CW, and he tunes with Mycal on the Explorers.

 

[13brute]

Wow, been on another forum for a few days.

Who's ended up being longer....lol

 

[Crash712us]

Holy crap batman! I need to visit more often. But then again it is sad to see we are here again. And won't lower myself by getting involved. However if OP is interest in my opinion feel free to PM me.

 

[Dave]

Withdrawn.

 

[TSS1]

Wow....me too......missed some stuff I guess......

 

[TommyP]

I've got my iTSX tuner and tunes coming this week from Torrie @ Unleashed. He came HIGHLY recommended from one of the tuners I've trusted with my Mustangs over the years. Can't wait!

 

[brucelinc]

Well, the OP got lots of feedback on his question! Lot of strong opinions but based on feedback all over the web, I personally would have no problem with a tune from either Torrie or LMS.

I currently have an LMS tune using the SCT x3. If I wanted to try Torrie's tunes, would I get the same canned tune for use in my x3 as I would if I got the iTSX? I realize the iTSX has some other capabilities but would both tuners have the same canned tunes?

 

[TSS1]

To summarize:

1. Torrie and LMS are both respected and have lots of 3.5 EB experience - the disagreements are basically irrelevant for non meth/non track guys like me who intend to only have a tune and possibly a CAI and nothing more. Differences arise as the need for speed increases.

2. Hennessey is not a real player or consideration here. EVERYBODY agrees on this.

 

[Dave]

To summarize:

1. Torrie and LMS are both respected and have lots of 3.5 EB experience - the disagreements are basically irrelevant for non meth/non track guys like me who intend to only have a tune and possibly a CAI and nothing more. Differences arise as the need for speed increases.

2. Hennessey is not a real player or consideration here. EVERYBODY agrees on this.

Well said. I agree completely.

 

[TommyP]

Just uploaded my tunes from Torrie, and all I can say is WOW. What a difference. It was fun to drive stock, but now, I feel like I'm driving a c6 vette...but huge...and with 4 doors.

Putting the K&N Typhoon in tonight....can't wait to hear the turbos.

 

[Dave]

Have fun with the Tune and Typhoon, Tommy!

 

[TSS1]

How do you like the K&N noise? I like mine (Swooshing/BOV) , but can see it being too much for some.

 

[TommyP]

How do you like the K&N noise? I like mine (Swooshing/BOV) , but can see it being too much for some.

I love it. You can manage the sound volume if you want to quiet it down or give off some serious noise when you want to. Blowing off going by mustangs and "tuner" cars is a trip. I've gotten some serious looks of confusion. I really like it...a lot of fun, and more performance than I've ever seen in any car I've ever owned from comparable money, and about 2 hours invested.