SHO motor project, new to SHO motor.

[Zach'sV6]

That's going to happen. I called a shop today to get prices on a basic 3 angle valve job and clean-up. The block, I can handle with a soft hone, 3 gals of kerosene and some new rings.

Any oil pump issues with these motors? That'd be a helluva note if I get the motor in the car and then the oil pump dies on me.

-Zach'sV6

 

[luigisho]

The oil pumps can fail but normally they are very durable. If you pull the pistons you'll get a good look at the screen, windage tray and pump. See how that looks and might change the rod bearings if you're pulling pistons too.

I agree with more tuning options if you are going to run EEC V wiring and use the Mustang ECU/PCM.

 

[rubydist]

I'd just remove old rings, clean carefully and reinstall the original rings w/o any honing, but that's just me. If there is still crosshatching on the cylinder walls with no scratches, the rings are still good.

 

[Zach'sV6]

I'm just using a ball hone. I'm not going to re-ring with moly and I can't find Wiseco rings (chrome top ring) so it's going to be Hastings or Perfect Circle. Both of those require a 240 grit hone to seat properly. Really, all the hone is going to do is break the glaze on the cylinder wall anyway.

The thing is, if I just throw rings in there, it's going to take forever to break them in and while that is happening, I'm burning oil and adding metal to my oil. Then there's also the chance that they won't break in at all if I don't use the hone.

 

[Zach'sV6]

Something I have to tackle is the conversion from DIS to EDIS...or maybe not. This is my problem. The SHO EEC-IV uses a DIS system that uses two hall effect sensors, one on the cam, one on the crank to generate a spark profile. The Mustang EEC-V is EDIS and uses a single 36-1 toothed wheel on the crank and a variable reluctance sensor to generate a spark profile. The cam sensor on the Mustang is only used for fuel injector timing.

Cam sensor: I'm not worried about, it's a hall effect sensor on both engines and it's just a matter of determining the pin-out.

Crank sensor: I'm thinking of ways to tackle this. Should I leave the DIS system in place or try to cobble together a VRS/crank wheel setup? The firing order on the SHO motor and the 3.8L V6 is the same so I don't expect much difficulty with the computer if I get a 36-1 tooth wheel on the crank somehow.

Suggestions? My biggest concern is how the EEC-V in the mustang is going to handle the DIS when it's programmed for EDIS.

-Zach'sV6

 

[SHOmethewayhome]

I was just reading about something similar with a guy building a KA24 and converting it from a distributor ignition to one using DIS off of an ****** that uses the 36-1 tooth wheel.

i'll see if i can find it. maybe it'll help.

 

[Zach'sV6]

I think making the tooth wheel is the way to go. It's a more accurate system for spark timing anyway. The EEC gets data every 10deg crank rotation vs. every 90deg for the DIS system and hall effect sensors. Plus...

I think I have room to put a wheel on the back of the crank pulley -if- I run without timing belt covers, which I was going to do anyway. Then it's just a matter of making a bracket to mount the VRS, also not too hard.

One last thing. I pulled my timing belt off the cam pulleys by hand without having to loosen anything. Guess a new tensioner should be in my budget too.

-Zach'sV6

 

[Sho Amo]

well if its 3.0 it should be a manual tensioner. So you would just tighten it.


Btw kool project. I heard the engine bay was kinda small in that body style.

 

[Off Road SHO]

You might be able to find a trigger wheel already made here: http://trigger-wheels.com/store/

Tom

 

[SHOmethewayhome]

I was so expecting to get rick rolled on that one Tom... who knew there was actually a trigger-wheels.com?

 

[Zach'sV6]

LoL!

That is the most oddly specific site I've ever seen. Thank you for pointing it out, I really would have never guessed that it even existed.


-Zach'sV6

 

[rubydist]

Suggestions? My biggest concern is how the EEC-V in the mustang is going to handle the DIS when it's programmed for EDIS.

-Zach'sV6

It should be easy to re-wire the engine for EDIS if you add the 36-1 toothed wheel. you just eliminate the dis since the pcm fires the coils directly, right?

 

[YZF-Ford]

FYI the ****** trigger wheel is .215" thick. I have one on my SVO and I had the crank pulley machined so that the ****** wheel will fit behind it without messing up my belt alignment.

 

[Zach'sV6]

It should be easy to re-wire the engine for EDIS if you add the 36-1 toothed wheel. you just eliminate the dis since the pcm fires the coils directly, right?

Yup, that's what I'm going to do. I can get rid of the pesky CPS and replace it with a much less pesky VRS, probably the same one off my 3.8L.

It's a remarkably simple operation. Mount the trigger wheel, mount the VRS six teeth back from the gap tooth and that's about it. Literally, the hardest part is mounting the trigger wheel. Since I'm running w/o timing belt covers, I'll probably mount my trigger wheel to the back of the crank pulley and the VRS somewhere in there.

I'm going to jinx myself for saying this...but...this is so far turning out to be a lot less complicated project than I had expected. The original swap motor was going to be a V10 from a truck, more hp, more tq, but heavy as **** and I'd have to swap k-members. Plus, no aftermarket support...at all. The SHO motor is turning out to be the far FAR better choice anyway.

_Zach

 

[SHOmethewayhome]

I disagree... PD blown terminator 5.4 32 valve would have been the way i went. but hey, i'm all mainstream like that.

 

[Zach'sV6]

Well, yeah...but a blown 5.4 is $$$x10^8....

The V10 was only about $1000, and so far, on the SHO motor I've spent less than $300 and that got me the entire car harness and a pretty good motor.

I like to spend a lot of time outside the box. I've got a house there, it's nice.

-Zach'sV6

 

[somedude_001]

Well, yeah...but a blown 5.4 is $$$x10^8....

The V10 was only about $1000, and so far, on the SHO motor I've spent less than $300 and that got me the entire car harness and a pretty good motor.

I like to spend a lot of time outside the box. I've got a house there, it's nice.

-Zach'sV6

This is a cheap engine to extract power from. 400whp from a stock engine + boost or spray. 600+ with pistons and more boost or spray. I ran my turbo ATX SHO for 2 or 3 years before I got stupid and cracked a piston. Couple hundred bucks later and i'm back in business. Now transmissions are a whole different story but that is irrelevant to this thread.

keep us updated I am really excited about your build. It is getting me pumped about getting my build going.

 

[jonheese]

The thing is, if I just throw rings in there, it's going to take forever to break them in and while that is happening, I'm burning oil and adding metal to my oil. Then there's also the chance that they won't break in at all if I don't use the hone.

No one else seemed to respond to this question (I think your EDIS/DIS quandary threw them all off), so here's my take on it:

The suggestions I saw about what to do with your rings were to keep the current rings (i.e. don't buy new ones at all), just take them out, clean them up and put them back in. This way you don't have to worry about cylinder honing or breaking in the rings.

The idea behind this suggestion was that if your cross-hatching still looks good, there's no good reason to replace the rings at all.

 

[shomethe$$$]

I was under the impression that the 4.6L 32 valve which came with a Eaton M112 was the terminator motor not the 5.4L 32valve which came on the Cobra and Australian production Fords but either way, that's big money to build a 5.4L 32valve motor, a 4.6 would be a better route since its a lot cheaper.

I don't see why you can's use all the SHO wiring, it's not integrated into other systems of the vehicle like a lot of cars, thats why I had no problem putting the complete system in my Honda, although I'm still running the Taurus SHO gauges, when I have time I'll get the Honda rpm, speedo and temp gauge to work, the idiot lights are easy.

I'm glad your doing something different, its easy to build a 4.6L and go crazy with it, its been done to death.

 

[somedude_001]

from what I gathered he was looking at using the cars wiring is that the ECU is more advanced and allows for better adjustment of the timing tables compared to the SHO system.