Will not start

[Devin]

UPDATE: Scroll down to post 27

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My 90 won't start. It cranks, and I get fuel but it doesn't even get close to starting. I tried pushing starting it which failed too. I ran the codes an I got 21, 24, and 91. I think 21 and 24 are the ACT and something else, but I don't think any of those would keep it from starting. What should I check next, spark?

 

[rubydist]

21 = engine coolant temp sensor out of range
24 = air charge temp sensor out of range
91 = front o2 sensor not switching properly

none of those indicate a problem that should prevent it starting, although the act code will always result in a very poorly running engine, in my experience.

you need fuel, spark, and air to make the engine run. find out which you are missing, and then you will have an idea which path to take so solve the problem.

 

[Devin]

I checked 4 and 5 for spark (pulled plug and wire out, and had the wife turn the engine over). Not a single spark off the electrode. I'm looking at alldata to see what the troubleshooting steps are, but as far as I can tell my culprits are DIS, PCM and coil pack.

edit: and the CKS

 

[rubydist]

start by checking all grounds to the engine. the dis needs the intake grounded well to the firewall, on the passenger side is where it should be.

likelihood of other issues are: crank sensor, dis, pcm, coil pack (in my experience)

did you have any warning issues, or did it just not start one day?

 

[Devin]

My warning was a severe drop in power and stumbling. Eventually I couldn't keep it going 10 MPH, and limped into a parking spot. It had happened before and I let the car sit for a few hours and limped it over to my brother's house. I let it sit for a week and it was fine. Half a year or so later about 10 miles into my commute the car started stumbling again so I turned around and parked the car at home. Tried starting it a month or so later and it wouldn't start at all.

 

[intimdatr]

Hmm. Doesnt sound like a DIS problem(ive always seen them to just work or not).
I would lean towards a dying Cam Or Crank sensor, Or Coil.

 

[Devin]

Hmm. Doesnt sound like a DIS problem(ive always seen them to just work or not).
I would lean towards a dying Cam Or Crank sensor, Or Coil.

I figured I'd get a code for the sensors. I'm thinking the coil pack died but i don't know if they all go out at the same time.

 

[rubydist]

usually, but not always, you will get a code set for a bad crank sensor. that is my first suspect based on your expanded description of the symptoms.

I have never seen a coil pack have all 3 die at once - always have one at a time in my experience.

the dis can cause a lot of symptoms given all it does, so it is still a suspect too.

a sick cam sensor can cause lots of issues, but I have never seen one prevent starting, unless there was a code set. so I discount the possibility of the cam sensor.

 

[Devin]

That's good info. I'll see if I can find a way to test the DIS and make sure it is grounded properly.

 

[Devin]

How can I test the CKS?

 

[rubydist]

you buy a replacement and install it. if it results in an engine that starts, you conclude that the old one was bad.

 

[Devin]

Dang.

 

[shotime1994]

Dumb question but do you have any type of alarm installed?

 

[Devin]

Nope, not at all. Yeah, it feels like a **** switch.

I feel like a newb. I've replaced the DIS, the coil pack checked all my grounds and now I'm looking to replace even more stuff.

Stupid car!

 

[Devin]

This is interesting. I charged the battery for a bit over 24 hours, and decided to start it up. I turned the key and all of the lights went dead. Turned the key again and then nothing. The car was completely dead. I took the clamps off and cleaned the terminals and clamps. Plugged everything back in. I thought I saw a spark when I tried turning it over so this time I called the wife out to watch it. This time it turned over but the terminal arced and I saw a little puff of smoke. I took a look and a chunk was missing from the lead clamp.

I talked to the father-in-law and he thinks it is a bad connection inside the starter. Any thoughts?

 

[NEp8ntballer]

you might want to replace the terminals and check the cables. ohm out the cables from the battery to the starter posts and the alternator to see how much resistance there is.

when you crank the car does the tach move? no tach means that it's the crank position sensor.

does the fuel pump prime when you turn the key to the on position? No pump noise means the pump may be bad or the inertia switch was tripped

otherwise, make sure the DIS is grounded otherwise it's probably the crank sensor. They normally fail because the water pump leaks onto them. but the car will usually start once the sensor dries out.

if you think it might be a starter issue take a screwdriver and bridge the posts on the starter. the starter motor should turn.

 

[Devin]

Good news, the starter was bench tested and it has a dead short. I am hopeful that this is was the root cause of my issues. We will see...

 

[rubydist]

I am confused. You said it cranks but doesn't start. Now you say the starter had a dead short. Starters with dead shorts do not crank. ???

 

[Devin]

Sorry, I may be using the wrong term.

To recap, when I turn the key one of three things happens:

1. Clicking
2. Power shuts off to the entire car
3. Engine turns over

If 1 happened, I usually just put some charging cables on the battery and let the charger do its thing. It would turn over later.
If 2 happened, I'd have to take the negative cable off and leave it off for an indefinite period. I think I had left it for a least five to ten minutes at one point.
If 3 happened (which was most likely), it would just turn over and nothing would start (hence my first post). Starting about three days ago, however, a new problem developed (or one I just noticed) and that was significant arcing at the positive terminal. I melted a big (eraser sized) chunk of my lead clamp. This is what led the diagnosis to indicate the starter.

When the parts guy bench tested it, there was absolutely no response to him putting the clamps on the positive terminal and the bolt hole. In fact, it made his test bench start acting wierd (the ammeter pegged, for one thing) and other cables started sparking. He got it to respond finally by placing the lead directly on the housing around the splined gear. Either way, the thing was toast.

I have the remanned starter bolted up. I tried getting the positive cable installed but gave up for the night. Any tips would be appreciated on getting that bugger bolted on. I am Hopeful that I can fire it up tomorrow.

 

[Devin]

Is there anything special that needs to be done when installing the starter? When I try starting now all I get is pulsing dash lights and some clicking.

If I didn't miss anything, I may have killed my battery. I have 13.5v at the battery though.